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Risen
Scout
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October 25, 2009 - 6:33 pm
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I am at the bandit camp, just gave the Don the golden sword. I think I broke some Brogar quests. I got money from all the people on the collection money list but can't get Brogar or Rachel to talk to me. It looks like 3 quests are dead ended somehow. I did get a couple on the list killed before the quest began but they were accounted for in the conversations. Oh well. I just took the money and bought pickpocket 2. Oscar the blacksmith has sicced one of the tough fighters on me as revenge and I don't want to pay him off and can't beat him yet, so it's off to Harbour City now. I'm tired of the bandits anyway. Tired of the swamp.

I plan on doing a few bandit quests in HC and then do all the Order quests and join the Warrior of the Order faction anyway. I am going to go after the max fireball from here on out.

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kaythomas
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I intalled Risen today.  Installed fine and looks fine so off to a smooth start. [Image Can Not Be Found]  So far I am just trying to get familiar with how it works so have only gotten to the first abandoned house. 

I am bemused. [Image Can Not Be Found]  I look at some of the screens like the character screen and I feel like I have never played a game like this.  I guess the only two RPGs I've played are Morrowind and Oblivion.  This seems a little simplier in that there is one character screen with my stats rather than layers and layers of them.  And I don't have to make these complex decisions right up front about who I am going to be.  This is something of a relief since I rarely knew what I was doing when I created my character and often suffered in the end because I could not really be the character I created.  Also it looks like the magic and potions etc may not be as complex.  This would be good if it is so since I was often daunted by the complexity of the magic in Morrowind and Oblivion and how many differerent types of magic there were to be developed and so I never progressed that far in any of them.  I may discover, however, that this game as it unfolds also turns into something that is overwhelmingly complex to me. 

Could one of you explain how this game fits into the overall world of RPGs and how it relates to games like Morrowind and Oblivion.  That sound like a lot of explaining for someone to do but really all I am looking for is a way to put this into a larger picture.  Or perhaps you could send me to a place that could provide an overview.  Kay

Imagine life with no hypothetical situations. 

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Pokey
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October 25, 2009 - 7:13 pm
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The fireball is keeping me alive. Melee just doesn't cut it. The elite lizardmen are just too tough and I can't string together different actions like I can with skeletons. I am only at fireball 5. I hear that there is an upgrade at 6 or 7 that is more powerful. I am at axe 7, but an upgrade doesn't seem to be that effective. I'm sure I could improve my fighting technique, but the fireball is so easy. In this tomb, they were chasing me and ran over a spike trap that killed all of them. Loved that. [Image Can Not Be Found]

I got some of the bandits after me, but I reloaded thinking I might need them later.

I am stumped momentarily with finding the second king's bust. There doesn't seem to be anything else at the this tomb, so I am thinking maybe it is back at the other tomb in this cave. Searched everywhere, but haven't found it. [Image Can Not Be Found]

Later...got it! It was at the first location.

Kay, in the Gothic games, you always start out with little and struggle to survive. You make choices later as to the direction you want to go, Paladin, Thief, Mage, etc. You do a lot of runnning as the enemies are quite strong, but as you gain strength, you can take them on. In Oblivion, the enemies sort of leveled with you. I love these games. They have a lot of adventure and exploration of beautiful landscapes.

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October 25, 2009 - 10:43 pm
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Kay, I'm going to go for Order Warrior, better know as the Paladin, a sort of battlemage character, with armor, weapons and spells. In this kind of game I've found that you start off with a sword and get some gold and quests then as soon as you can, become a Paladin and start working on ranged spells. But at the beginning you'll need a sword and sheild. And like Pokey says, run, run, run. I usually get the monsters to chase me and then run into the bandit camp and let them deal with while I shoot from a rooftop with a cross bow and hope I get the kill shot and thus the xp. At the very least I can loot the corpse. You lose some bandits that way but no great loss except for a quest here and there.

Good to see you again. [Image Can Not Be Found]

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October 26, 2009 - 1:29 am
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I'm running around Harbour City, picking up quests and talking to everyone. So far I've done one quest (1/4) for the Order. It's very much like an adventure game right now. No combat, lots of picking through threads of intrique, much like a mystery thriller. Adventure games always had that flavor to them and this part of the game does too. The PC as head dick, sifting through the threads, trying to make sense of it, trying to see a pattern in the weave. After the hack and slash of the swamp and the bandits this is a nice respite.

I have yet to find a trader with a single peice of gold on them. It's all stuff-for-stuff which matches the story line nicely. Still it would be great to find a trader to dump all the junk I am carrying around in my bottomless inventory for some hard, cold gold.

Scout
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October 26, 2009 - 1:55 am
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kaythomas said:

Could one of you explain how this game fits into the overall world of RPGs and how it relates to games like Morrowind and Oblivion.  That sound like a lot of explaining for someone to do but really all I am looking for is a way to put this into a larger picture.  Or perhaps you could send me to a place that could provide an overview.  Kay


kay,

Morrowind and Oblivion are very much US RPGs. Bethedsa, the developers, specializes in open, massive game world with minimal narrative and  a sort of bland, beautiful, slick game world.

Risen and its predessors, Gothic 1, Gothic 2, and Gothic 3 are from the eastern European rpg school of role playing computer games. The color scheme is, if anything, even more brown, more gray, and the gameplay more difficult. The narrative, however, is tighter, more linear and follows a perceivable arc. The mechanics, as you have seen for yourself, are simpler, stripped down and to the point. Graphics are simplistic, but combat is more complex. NPCs are more cruel, more brutal and more unforgiving. The fauna in this sort of game are especially lethal and you cannot, should not, ever take a confrontation with the local wildlife lightly. Unlike in Oblivon, in Risen there are areas in the game world you frankly, just cannot explore until late in the game. You can try but you won't get very far. The best strategy is to level up until you are very beefy and then return and clean out these areas. If you wander into a place where the combat seems impossible, just leave.

There are three main paths to combat. Three factions.

1. The sword. Bandits. Timing is everything here and unlike the Bethedsa games, you cannot just hack and slash your opponent to death. It's more a dance of death, with the you and your opponent attacking and retreating, blocking, sidestepping, and trying to read the other's pattern. You have to choose the right moment to swing the sword and then quickly right click and block and retreat, move the side, try to work your opponent into a corner or against a wall where you will be able to press the advantage. If you just start swinging the NPC AI will read your pattern and make quick work of you. Most gamers either love or hate this combat style. It is real time, exhilarating and unforgiving. Peronally I sort of like it though if an opponent gets in a hit, you are stunned, frozen and kicked back. If you don't recover in time, you can quickly be killed. Oddly, animals with their teeth and claw seem to hit harder and faster than humans with all their blades and axes.

2. The sword and the spell. Warrior of the Order. My favorite. In Risen this is the path of the Warrior of the Order and the path I'm taking. I think Pokey and Yapette have also chosen it. It is the best of both worlds, part bandit and part mage. You have armor, weapons, spells and some magic. It's a sort of jack-of-all-trades character and is equivalent to the Morowind Battlemage or a Paladin. I was a battlemage in MW and I think Pokey was too.

3. The spell. Mages. No real weapons or armor to speak of early in the game. This character is weak early on and invincible in the end. It takes the most strategy and delivers the most pay off and is the most frustrating. People who play the game through 3 times in order to play each faction, usually reserve the mage for last. This way they have the advantage of foresight...know what they are getting into and can be better prepared.

On the whole, Risen is getting a reputation for being a brutally hard game towards the end, even harder than the Gothic 2 expansion, Night of the Raven, which was considered the hardest of the Gothics. Though I played G2, I didn't play NOTR. The forums were full of gamers testifying to NOTR's difficulty and also it's superb gameplay. Risen also is still  a young game and so there are bugs.  I think I have already broken 3 quests in the swamp at the bandit camp. Luckily, that sort of thing doesn't bother so I could give a crap.

Read Yapette and Pokey's posts. They give you a good overview. I'm also starting to post. A good site for info is Risen's US distributor, Deep Silver.

Their forum is here:

http://forum.deepsilver.com/fo...../index.php

I am still in chapter 1 and foresee myself playing this thing to the end. I loved the Gothic games though they are sort of the Kafka's of RPGs… if that makes any sense. The devs, Piranha Bytes, made the first three games and then lost the rights to the as-yet-unreleased Gothic 4, so in a way Risen is Gothic 4.

Hope this helps.

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Yapette
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October 26, 2009 - 1:23 pm
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Another good place is World of Risen (in German) particularly the help forum in English. I have spent the last month at both World of Risen and Deep Silver.

I watched the last Boss Fight on YouTube. I fully understand the mechanics of winning, and maybe one or two of three strategies I could manage. But not the lighted runes/falling away. I would like to have watched the end credits but I could find only German.

It's ok though. If I spent the next month trying a dozen times daily and eventually managed to triumph? I would feel not an ounce of satisfaction. More like dissatisfaction for wasting so much time on a virtual “boss battle” that I found hateful from the first moment. 

Loved most of the game though, haven't played this obsessively for years. Essence of being a gamer: achieving the Zone. [Image Can Not Be Found]

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Yapette
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October 26, 2009 - 9:31 pm
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DamNATION. Trying to finish up other pending-forever games & could not W+SHIFT=Run. Instead I'd dead stop in place.  wtf? Is it possible my keyboard is f**ked? Is this why I could never levitate properly?  [Image Can Not Be Found]

Apparently so as swapping out keyboards mid-game (never a healthy manuver) had me sprinting like a champion!

Woulda helped in Risen. Keyboard is crappy $12 bargain used for testing but it does work even if the keys feel like plastic chicklets.

Scout, I told you to go play in the city, you'd have more fun & less death. Why won't youngsters ever listen? [Image Can Not Be Found]

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Pokey
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October 27, 2009 - 2:29 am
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Yap, I think I have gotten myself into a pickle. Not long after I entered the West tomb behind the waterfall, I crossed a spike trap and came to a room with a big trapdoor and a banging stone door. Threw the switch and went through the gate to a lava river with two levels across the way. There is a button on the lower level. I jumped to the lower level and then ended up on the other side of the stone door. There is a switch, but I don't see that it does anything. I can't go through the banging door and I can't go back over the lava because it is a no magic area. [Image Can Not Be Found]

Do you know where I am and have any suggestions? If I had the teleport stone for this tomb, I would teleport out and then back in. I did see that the trapdoor leads to a big room with what looks like a map column. Was that the way to go?

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Yapette
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October 27, 2009 - 2:09 pm
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OOooo I can never remember which rooms are what even when I'm running through them. I think you broke the area by jumping down a level…successfully like you shouldn't of oughta. [Image Can Not Be Found] That said, I think this is the temple where there's a lower area I was missing & yes, there is a major room with 3 locked doors & a map column. Hintitude: this temple involves 3 winches, a drawbridge (separately controlled) & no statues. If I can remember all the way back 3 days ago. [Image Can Not Be Found]

You can run through those banging doors if you have a speed scroll & are allowed to use it. Or simply try running. I jumped across a gap I though for sure needed levitation but it didn't (again, in a no magic zone).

Or, what about this? Dive into the lava & die, thus necessitating a reload. [Image Can Not Be Found] Like to a nearby autosave.

I teleported out once to get more scrolls just in case, trudged all the way back by foot. My closest stone was Western ruins and I have 13/14 but no far western.

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Pokey
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October 27, 2009 - 3:14 pm
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No luck getting through those doors. I wonder if it is possible. Speed does not help. It looks like I am way past the door but I get smashed each time. There are two doors, which I did not realize, and the lever near me stops the closest one. I hate to lose the tough battles I won here by reloading way back, so I will probably teleport out and walk from the bandit camp. I could upgrade my fireball at the same time. So it looks like the only path is through the trapdoor. It's maddening that they would make that jump easily done and leave you stranded. I still feel that there must be a way out that I'm missing. [Image Can Not Be Found]

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Yapette
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October 27, 2009 - 3:29 pm
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I remember this doorway now. If a trapdoor is in the middle maybe you should visit whatever you fall into. If there is such a trapdoor, I only fell once. During the rest of my exploration I would run back thru the 2nd banging door (which continues banging & cannot be turned of), over the mid-section & out (1st banging door having been turned off). If I remember correctly.

If you get really lost, I can load up some saves to see what advice to give you. Your goal now - the devs' goal for you - is to get a map so you understand your objectives (dots & lines without explanation):  three part gate must rise controlled by 3 winches.

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Pokey
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October 27, 2009 - 4:10 pm
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I posted on the Deep silver forum and got the reply that yes, I was stuck. There is no way out, so don't jump there. I tried running through that door both directions and was never successful.

There is a blocked stone door in the room, so maybe it is entered from another direction.

I think the teleport stone for this temple is near the boss battle, not here. I did level up in this tomb so I have some points to spend.

I have to get that map.

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October 27, 2009 - 5:34 pm
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Holy crap, this thread has gotten huge since last I looked! I am still waiting to resolve my sound issue before I can play, and by then y'all will probably be done [Image Can Not Be Found]

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October 27, 2009 - 6:24 pm
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Jen,

Yapette and Pokey have been playing for weeks and are far, far ahead of anyone else. I am still in chapter 1, just got into the monastery as an Order Warrior. kay started a few days ago but I haven't heard how much progress she has made yet. I will be a while, I think.

Mike

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Pokey
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October 27, 2009 - 8:22 pm
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After my detour, I am back on track. Winches are done and bridge is lowered (on my first shot!). I used my permanent strength potions (to 132) before starting this tomb and with the upgrade to fireball 7, I am feeling pretty strong. I can handle undead beasts and skeletons and even do pretty well against elite lizardmen.

I found that the blade axe works better against lizardmen. I got that ogre in the bandit camp with the blunt axe.

Edit....I was finally successful in running through the door using a speed potion. You have to be careful where you start and how far you run.

Finished the last tomb, saw Eldric and am meeting up with Ursegor. I almost forgot about him and was wondering what to do next.

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kaythomas
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Thanks Scout,  That explantion helps a lot.   I haven't played enough RPGs to understand the differences among them but Risen sure seemed different from Morrowind and Oblivion right from the start.   I find the idea of the Kafka of video games quite appealing.

Jen, I am in very early days of the game.  Just started chapter one.  Went back and redid the Prologue after I got an idea of how this all seems to work.   Have just made to the Bandit camp in the swamp.  Don't worry about catching up.  I am very slow at this type of game and only play a little bit each day.   You will be zooming ahead of me soon .

Yapette, thanks for the link to the other forum.  With Bullocks,  GameBoomers, Deep Silver and World of Risen there seems to be a lot of help available.

Kay

Imagine life with no hypothetical situations. 

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Pokey
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I'm done. I beat the big boss tonight. [Image Can Not Be Found]

It just took a bit of practice to see that you only need to watch the runes. Stay off the lit ones. I didn't even use any healing. I think it took about 6-7 blows. I was expecting to finish with 5.

Loved the game and can't wait for the next one. [Image Can Not Be Found]

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Congrats, Pokey. Sounds like a relatively short game compared to the last few.

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I solved the murder mystery in the monestary and dealt with the guilty party. That was a hard fight. My hand was cramping and I had to start hitting quick save so I could give it a rest. That worked in my favor in the end though.  I have now finished basic training and am off to the upper level to get the rest of the Master's training. I spent more than I wanted to in learning points on the staff fighting though. Hopefully I can get to the fireballs soon.

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