How do you people keep playing this? How many hours have you all put into it now? What's keeping so involved?

As a result of Dark Souls? If so, that's interesting because I've warmed to them more since Dark Souls due to their capacity to surprise me every time I play. I'm not trying to say that Dark Souls doesn't surprise, it's just that its foundations are set more in mastery through repetition (by way of levels and enemies and loot locations being the same each time). One of the things that always irked me about the Souls games, which kind of illustrates my point, is that tougher bosses are nearly always impossible to kill on a first attempt so you've often got to repeat stretches of a level before attempting the boss again to try and understand what you've got to do and most importantly how to stop dying, which drove me mad at the best of times. In fact, I think I stopped playing Dark Souls around the spot where there's the hydra in Darkroot Basin because I just kept dying trying to work out how to avoid its attacks. The Flamelurker did the same in Demon's, the spiders in both Dark and Demon's, the Capra Demon.

With a roguelike there are a lot of systems that can be capitalised on to offset tough enemies and bad fortune and yes, there's a lot of randomness involved too but trying to ascertain how much of that is responsible for your success or failure is very difficult in itself. I'm not much of a dice roll/random number generation kind of guy -- I often find that sort of thing sloppy (see my thoughts on Risk of Rain at the bottom of my Games of 2013 list. That game seems to be a lot more cut and dry with its randomness determining success or failure) -- and I've not played that many roguelikes either, but from the few I have played they hit a bit of sweet spot for me between challenge, replayability and strategy/tactics. I think Dark Souls, much like Demon's Souls, had the challenge and the strategy/tactics (and plenty more obviously), but it was the replaying sections that ground me down in the end.

I'm very much hoping that I'll return to Dark Souls like I did Demon's Souls which I left for the best part of a year before picking up again and then finishing.

I think Dix was referring to The Binding of Isaac. Am I right?

I'd never played any of these roguelike games, or roguelike-like as people are saying I guess. Spelunky was my first as far as I know. It is just a brilliant game; I've even been watching people play it on twitch which is a hoot. I don't think I would have the appreciation for it that I do had I not experienced Demon's and Dark Souls. I like what you said, Botch: it changes your gaming DNA. It truly has for me.

If there are other games like Spelunky I'm definitely open to trying them.

I think, Gregg, where the repetition doesn't grind me down is in knowing there are shortcuts to be opened. And not only actual shortcuts, but mental shortcuts. I know you can say it of almost any game, but gaining knowledge through failure in DeS/DkS became part of the satisfaction. The first shortcut in Demon's Souls: the castle gates with the Cling Ring in between them was a major moment for me, as minimal a milestone that seems (not at the time!). There were many hurdles after that but, mentally, I knew they were surmountable. When I beat Demon's Souls I just knew that Dark Souls would be possible. I feel the same way about Dark Souls II.

I was skimming an interview (re: Witcher 3) on IGN with one of the co-founders of CD Projekt. He was asked about weird difficulty spikes in Witcher 2, and if they would be more smoothed out. He then mentioned how he'd heard people were dying a lot in the prologue (like me) and was dissatisfied with that, then said this:

"We don't have the ambition to be a Demon's Souls."

Hmph. Maybe just worded awkwardly, but that's kind of a funny quote.

I know he was referring to the punishment aspect, but it's still funny to read those words. The translation my brain makes is we don't have the ambition to be the bomb fackin' diggity best swords fightin' game!

PC looks great and all but ..... the hackers