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Dark Souls
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Pokey
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August 26, 2013 - 12:50 pm
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I was able to summon a couple (first one I didn't watch his health very well) very easily this morning and we put the Sanctuary Guardian down. I'll come back and put down my summon sign to fight him again  for fun.

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Steerpike
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August 26, 2013 - 7:45 pm
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I'll hopefully be playing it at the Eurogamer Expo, so with luck I can report back a bit of substantive information in a month or so. I must say, this recent flurry of talk about Dark and Demon's has got me feeling like playing again. I think the Artorias content is only $7 on PSN, and I much prefer playing from the couch. Perhaps I'll make it happen.

When I say I'm worried that I'll know too much, it's less exploitable flaws I'm referring to and more flavor. The best way to clarify that is this: compare how long it took you to get to, then defeat, the Bell Gargoyles on your first playthrough (about 40 hours for me) to how long it took on your second (for me, about 1.5 hours). The first go-round it wasn't just because I sucked (though I did), and wasn't just because I didn't know the area (though I didn't), and the second go round it wasn't just for the opposite reasons.

Sure, much of the delta can be explained simply by knowing where stuff is, but you learn to play the Souls games in a way that's sort of irrevocable and unforgettable. You learn to be aggressive, that over-caution is actually worse than recklessness; you learn that progress is an objective rather than a thing to fear; these weren't skills I had when I started playing Dark Souls, and I think when I start playing Dark Souls 2 I'll naturally cleave to them. Which is fine, I'll still enjoy the game, but some of that... that raw terror might be gone. Until you really grok the proper way to play a Souls game, every step is taken, every corner turned, in fear - because every step could be your last.

Eventually you learn the secret of Souls: you don't fear the games because they're difficult; they're difficult because you fear them.

I saw this very profoundly at one point in Dark Souls which I didn't go into much in the Diaries - I quit playing for maybe 2 months after my first foray into the Depths. I wasn't dissatisfied or unhappy, it's just that I felt like I'd seen my limit and it was the Depths. I got my money's worth and moved on. For reasons I can't even remember, I decided to fire up the game again and I took a poll among friends of "where I should go." None of them had played the game, so they just tossed out thoughts based on my descriptions, but one guy said "do what you're supposed to do and go back to the Depths." It was the last thing I wanted to hear, but for some reason it was the advice I took, and suddenly something changed. It was one of a handful of Dark Souls Epiphanies I had. I wouldn't say the Depths suddenly got easy, but there was more Game beyond them, rather than just a black wall of you'll-never-get-there-so-the-game-may-as-well-not-have-any-more.

That sense of empowerment actually stayed with me in concentrated form all the way through Gaping Dragon and Blighttown, to the point that I almost breezed through it because I was suddenly confident. Over time the confidence dwindled a little, but it never left. I wonder if I'll feel different, playing Dark Souls 2, because it won't be this horrid vortex of ruin.

I mean, you gotta understand, I bought Dark Souls with completion not even in the farthest realms of my equation. I assumed I'd play to Point X, where Point X is "you can't get further." It happened in Demon's Souls. Never crossed my mind that I'd fiinish. My only question was when would it beat me. Actually when I went at Asylum Demon with a broken sword hilt, I was more than a little worried that I'd spend $60 for ten minutes.

Meanwhile, with Dark Souls 2, unless I'm not enjoying the game because it's bad, I sort of assume I'll finish. Why wouldn't I?

 

For some reason, the feeling that I'd be defeated by those games was almost desirable, and the feeling that I can defeat them worries me a bit.

But just a bit. If the worst I can come up with is "I might be better than I expect at the game," that's not really much of a leg to stand on, doubts-wise.

 

*EDIT: and now you see why the Dark Souls Diaries consumed 51,000 words. Anyone who isn't me could have managed all the above in about three sentences.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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August 26, 2013 - 10:34 pm
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Oh boy, I could QFT that whole post.

Your description of that first quest to reach the Bell Tower brings back so many memories.  I remember my struggles just to make it to Andre.  It was achingly slow and tortured.  The thing that really sticks in my mind was the decision of whether to enter the cathedral or take that long path to the right.  I actually chose well and soon after heard the blessed sounds of hammer on anvil.

I was so terrified by the Depths.  I knew what was waiting at the lowest point and was paralyzed by fear of having to go down and face those bulgy-eyed monsters.

I see what you mean now about learning how to play a Souls game.  There's no going back for sure.  Still, I retain my hope that the lure of the unknown will still be strong.  You know, like the Force.

 

Rule #2: Double-tap

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Steerpike
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August 27, 2013 - 12:13 am
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The Artorias expansion was $14.99, but you're talking to a person who actually bought one of those Nest thermostats so 'responsibility' really isn't in my vocabulary (nor, I guess, is 'you own that on PC'). It's weird, it's just a little 100K file. If I recall, the Artorias content was loaded for everyone with one patch or another, right? So I guess this just unlocks it. Nothing's different, but hey. It says it's installed.

So I played for a couple hours just now. A lot of the muscle memory comes back after a while, though you guys would've been howling if you saw me fumbling with the inventory while I was knee-deep in New Londo water, trying to remember where was safe to stand from Xtal's videos so I could find the Fire Keeper soul right off like he suggested. GET OUT YOUR HOMEWARD BONE BEFORE YOU GO IN STEERPIKE.

But I was trying to look at myself as Today Steerpike and Never Won A Souls Game Steerpike, and though I don't clearly remember how the latter played, I know he didn't fling himself at enemies the way I do now. The caution kills you, because I know I'm not actually that much better in combat. How on earth did I need forty hours to get to the first Bell? But at the time I didn't feel like I was slogging, didn't feel like it was too slow, it felt pretty much right on. When you think about the amount of physical territory you visit during that period it's ridiculous. It's practically nothing. I remember that about Demon's, every now and then I'd stop and look back and realize that I'd been struggling and clawing forward for an hour and made it maybe twenty feet. Look, there's the Archstone! Right... right there. I can poke it with my spear. I spent an hour getting my ass handed to me to make it three quarters of a spear length.

Still though, as I've said, Gregg and I often say the same thing about STALKER, and while it's true you can never do it for the first time again, that didn't really diminish the sequels for me, or any replays.

March 2014 is a lot nearer now than it was when they first announced this game!

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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August 27, 2013 - 11:43 am
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Right, the download is just for unlocking the DLC, and you did indeed d/l the actual data in a previous update.

Another aspect of "learning how to play" is understanding how less important increasing soul level is to upgrading gear.  It flies in the face of every RPG lesson we've learned over many years of RPGs.  Take on that Parish with default gear and you have your 40 hours.  Take it on with even a modestly upgraded weapon and it's a whole different affair.  Add to that your "caution kills" insight and BAM, instant ass-kickery!

Yeah, I can see March clearly now too.

 

Rule #2: Double-tap

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xtal
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August 27, 2013 - 1:23 pm
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I totally get all of that "first time" business. It's true, it won't and can't be like the first time ... but in a way that's kind of nice. What you said, Steerpike, that you never even fathomed winning a Souls game when you bought Demon's and Dark, that is so true. I bought Demon's Souls on a whim in 2010 because I'd heard all of those things we'd all heard about it. I thought this isn't my kind of game...but it'll make my collection nicer.

Remembering that feeling, and knowing what I know now, I understand that, of course, nothing will ever quite replicate the overwhelming feeling I had upon seeing the credits begin to roll on Demon's Souls. It was incredible in Dark Souls as well, but there was only one first time, and it was special because of just how unexpected it had been.

I don't expect more moments like that in Dark Souls 2 (and beyond), but I also don't need to. Now I'll be in it for the challenge, and that rush of discovery and once again for the moments that couldn't have been expected.

 

On the DLC: enjoy it. It's as good as (and occasionally better than) any of the game's best content.

<--- Always available for summons!

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Pokey
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August 27, 2013 - 3:15 pm
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I'm having a hard time in the Royal Wood. The Scarecrows are easy but I can't seem to do much damage against the Giants. Do I need better weapons or is it just poor skills? I've used the Lightning Halberd +5 and the Fire Gargoyle Halberd +10 (slower). I thought the Divine Mace +5 might be good since it worked against the Stone Golems in Darkwood Gardens. It barely tickled him. I have the Fire Claymore +5 and the Lightning Uchigatana +5. I did run around the place with my Fog ring and Slumber boots and got the loot. I could just sneak by all of the enemies and head toward Atorias.

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Synonamess Botch
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August 27, 2013 - 3:48 pm
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Those giants just have a lot of hit points.  Magic is no good, and a straight-up physical dmg weapon is probably best.  You just have to wear them down and dodge.  Or you could skirt around them entirely...

The Royal Woods is probably my least favorite area of the DLC.  Mainly because there isn't much there and those annoying Guardians.  I typically speed through it, ignoring all the loot, since I never use the Guardian armor.

Xtal, I still don't really remember what compelled me to try out Demon's Souls.  By all accounts it should have been a game that was not my kind of game.  Something about it though.  All the buzz around it (accurately) made it seem unlike anything out there.  It was mysterious and exotic.  I first gave it a try during the Christmas holidays of 2011.  World Tendency was set to Pure White.  It was alluring and terrifying at the same time.  Yeah, I'll never have that feeling again, but like all of you it's replaced by others that are just as compelling.

 

Rule #2: Double-tap

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xtal
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August 27, 2013 - 3:48 pm
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You're not missing too much loot in the Royal Wood, Pokey. If you're thorough you'll find a full set of the Stone Guardian armor which I don't like very much, but it's quite sufficient if you're playing a heavier character. There are also a bunch of miscellaneous soul items and one highly useful item, Elizabeth's Mushroom (fast HP regen), that you'll find in a small alcove near one of the cliffs. I know that's not helpful...but I have a hard time navigating the Royal Wood from memory.

The most important thing to do is activate both shortcuts (elevators) if you can. That way if you perish against the boss it will be a short trip back.

As for weapon choice, I don't think the scarecrow men or stone guardians have any particular weakness. I would use your best fire weapon as it's the most likely to stun them and buy you precious additional seconds.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Steerpike
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August 27, 2013 - 4:09 pm
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I still don’t really remember what compelled me to try out Demon’s Souls.

It was me! You do as you're told and you like it!

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Pokey
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August 27, 2013 - 4:17 pm
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OK, I think I'll just slip by them, except I want to try to do a bit better against the Giants. I'll try a couple other weapons and work on my movement against them. It annoys me that I can't do better against them. I was hitting the Scarecrows for 600-700 and then only 34-70 for the Giant. This part of the game feels harder.

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Synonamess Botch
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August 27, 2013 - 4:18 pm
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Steerpike said

I still don’t really remember what compelled me to try out Demon’s Souls.

It was me! You do as you're told and you like it!

Free will:  so overrated.

Rule #2: Double-tap

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Synonamess Botch
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August 27, 2013 - 4:26 pm
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Timing your dodge is tricky with them Pokey (I assume you're dodging and not blocking).  And that area attack is annoying!  It's the split damage (e.g. phys & lightning) which is getting you since their defense is so high.

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Synonamess Botch
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August 27, 2013 - 5:45 pm
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I just found out about mega mule.  Google it.  I guess it was inevitable...

 

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xtal
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August 28, 2013 - 2:27 pm
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That's quite old, Botch. Basically if you see a character that has completely red (or was it blue?) skin, chances are it's a clone of the original mega mule build. Most hardcore players, knowing this, wouldn't willingly create a character of that colour now, therefore chances are that red characters are filthy scum.

I don't think any glitch could trump the dragon head glitch in terms of dastardliness. Worse than Giants/THE LEGEND, which you at least see coming.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Synonamess Botch
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August 28, 2013 - 2:36 pm
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So call me late to the party.  I can see the appeal to legitimate PvPers who don't want to spend so much time putting together a build.  Of course, less savory types will abuse it.  I'm tempted to try it, on a different account of course.

I only encountered a dragon head glitch-er once.  Once was enough.

 

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Pokey
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August 28, 2013 - 3:32 pm
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I've been putting down summons at the door to Artorius, since I didn't do well by myself. It was easy helping others. The last one I helped headed down to fight Kalmeet. That was a surprise. Even with three of us, we  couldn't defeat him. He is able to heal himself! I don't look forward to that battle.

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Pokey
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August 29, 2013 - 9:09 pm
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What's going on? I tried to kindle a fire and got the message I need a secret rite. I have the Rite of Kindling. frown

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Synonamess Botch
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August 31, 2013 - 1:44 pm
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Never had that happen.  Which bonfire?

 

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Pokey
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August 31, 2013 - 1:59 pm
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The one in the Sanctuary Garden. It is the first I tried to kindle in the DLC. I believe I also tried the one after Artorias and had the same result. I checked my inventory and don't see the Rite of Kindling but I know I had it and used it many times.

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