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Thanks for the feedback and suggestions guys. Just had another few goes with the gargoyles but too tired to get anywhere and started getting angry so I quit while I was behind.
Part of the reason I'm taking this so slowly is that this is like no other game I've played and I'm a bit out of my comfort zone. Never played a game based on hand-to-hand combat - I'm a fan of Thief/Dark Mod, but never got the hang of the combat system (which wasn't a problem as those games aren't built round it). Never played a game using a gamepad (I'm still struggling with the left-thumb stick - in the heat of battle I too often roll into enemies instead of to their side, or I roll sideways when I'm trying to back away
). And I've never played a game with so many stats to consider*. Got a vague understanding of how the parameter bonuses work; when it comes to levelling up, it quite often looks like strength and dexterity are almost identical, but one of them (usually dex) adds one more point to a parameter than the other, so I just go with that. Equipment load is 39.1/111.6, so I'm doing medium roll.
Question: My halberd+5 says physical ATK is 165 with +69 next to it. I assumed that meant a total ATK of 165+69=234, but the wiki says ATK of a halberd +5 is 165 so - what does the +69 refer to? (If the halberd is just 165, maybe I should start using the Drake Sword as it does more damage for the same weight - ??? Decisions decisions.)
*Got FTL on a sale. Never lasted more than 10 minutes with it.
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Much as we love Dark Souls around here, we're not blind to its faults and quirks (OK maybe a little blinkered). Helmut, your mention of the shield stats page brings that fact to mind. There is perhaps no more worthless stat in the game than a shield's attack damage. And then they stick stability over in the corner like a naughty child. That said, you can find youtube videos of people doing shield-only play-throughs because...yeah.
Also, remember that pressing Select (or whatever it's called on the 360 controller...you guys are using a controller right?!) while on the player stat screen will bring up a brief description of the highlighted stat. It's nowhere near as comprehensive as a wiki of course, but can serve as a quick reminder.
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Simple, let's talk about weapon damage scaling! Strength and Dexterity are the same in that they both cause increased physical (as opposed to fire or lightning) damage as you increase them. However, and this is the important part, different weapons scale their damage differently. Some scale with only Strength, others only with Dexterity, and others with a combination of both. You can see this on the weapon stats page. Look for Parameter Bonuses. You'll see a letter for the Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Faith Stats. The letters (E, D, C, B, A and S) indicate classes of damage scaling, with E being the worst and S being the best. For instance, a weapon which has an A scaling for Strength will grant a damage multiplier which increases as your Strength goes up. The exact multipliers aren't really known, as each class represents a range (one A scaling could be a little better than another A for instance) but each successive letter is better than the previous one.
For example, the Halberd starts off with a D scaling in both Strength and Dexterity and nothing for Intelligence or Faith. If you increase either Strength or Dexterity, you'll gain a modest amount of damage scaling each time. Upgrading a weapon usually improves its scaling class. That +69 you're seeing is the attack damage you're gaining from your current Strength and Dexterity stats. The 165 is the base attack damage for the weapon at its current upgrade level. So it's important to only increase the stat which affects your preferred weapon. For a weapon which only scales with Strength, upgrading Dexterity would be a complete waste.
That's one reason that new players are often advised to go with a so-called "quality" build. It's a reference to a type of weapon upgrade from Demons' Souls which gave scaling for both Strength and Dexterity. By increasing both of those stats, you will meet the minimum stats of a broader set of weapons. That way you can experiment with them until you find the ones that suit you.
Anyway that's the basics. I've left out Intelligence and Faith scaling but the concepts are the same.
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I was completely ignorant on all this stuff until months after I finished the game, and in retrospect it explains a lot about why I had some of the troubles I did. You don't have to master the arithmetic, but a general understanding of weapon scaling and its relation to base stats as Botch outlines there will make your life much easier.
When it comes to the Drake Sword, there's no harm in using it provided you go in with your eyes open and understand that it will probably not be a long-term solution. At this point it does more base damage than pretty much anything else available, making it very attractive. However, it requires a lot of strength to wield one-handed, each swing has a significant stamina hit, and worst of all, upgrading it requires Dragon Scale which is extremely rare. In the long run it will be surpassed by weapons with easier/cheaper upgrade paths. If your objective is to do more damage right now, it can be helpful; but you probably don't want to invest too heavily in it.
If the Gargoyles are frustrating you, alternatives are available. First, the lower Undead Burg as the guys suggest above: it unlocks a crucial shortcut and you have to go down there eventually anyway.
Second is further exploration in Darkroot Garden. The narrow path leading away from Andrei's has a right turn onto a sort of winding hill thing that'll eventually get you down to Darkroot Basin. You don't need to explore the Basin thoroughly right now, but there's some handy treasure on that particular path: a full Elite Knight Set (armor that can hold you for the rest of the game if you want it to) and a Grass Crest Shield, which offers reasonable defense and significantly increases your stamina regen. There's also a Black Knight on that path, so watch yourself.
Always remember your role when you've summoned help, whether we're talking real players or NPCs like Solaire. It drives me crazy when people summon phantoms and then charge in like they're afraid someone will steal their kills. Your phantoms are there to die for you. Let them. Similarly, when you have phantoms in tow, your job isn't to be on the front lines, it's to keep your phantoms alive - that means hanging back, watching their health, and drinking Estus as needed. In the Gargoyles' case, you probably have little choice but to participate in the fight, but it's all for nothing if you get killed. There's no point in going ten rounds with a Bell Gargoyle when you have phantoms to do it for you. Play it cautious and let them stand in harm's way.
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
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I found these summary statements helpful:
-Weapon has a BaseDamage.
Weapon has a BonusDamage that is a percentage of the BaseDamage.
Players only get a fraction of that BonusDamage, based on player's stats.
Player increases stats, in the goal to get closer to 100% BonusDamage.
The equations themselves are interesting, but not essential, and include enough randomness to make it all hogwash anyway. Looking at this scaling wiki page, S scaling can range from 140% to 200% randomly. You could get a real dud S scaling weapon if you're not lucky. One thing I did not do well enough last game was to invest in upgrades to the equipment that I liked. So my armor was plain level 0 stuff, along with my longbow. Sadly I do not enjoy the Balder Side Sword, and it has been discarded.
I was watching a vid walkthrough on Smough and Ornstein, and the player was walking backwards while facing the enemy. Umm, does anyone know how to do this? Is this some camera locking trick? It's useful in that the player was able to deal soulmass spells and just stay oriented while not spending a bunch of energy to run. Everytime I try to retreat towards the camera POV, my character turns his back on the opponent.
My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude
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If your enemy is targeted (click the right stick) you will face them. Targeting is a crucial skill, but it's equally important to master NOT targeting every foe - whether or not to target depends on your circumstances. There's no single right way.
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
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Sorry, I don't know what 'click the right stick' means. Are you supposed to be able to press it down? I don't think mine does that. Hmmm.
My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude
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Yup, depress like a button. If the controller's fully 360-compatible it should have that functionality. If you've made it this far without targeting enemies, you're a steely-eyed missile man.
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
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Oh Helmut, I've failed you again. Target lock is a crucial feature of combat. When locked on you'll see a white ring on your locked opponent, and all of your lateral movement will rotate you around that enemy and keep you facing it. You can switch opponents by moving the right stick in that enemy's direction. Yes, you lock on by pressing in on the right stick, which acts as a button. The Xbox and Playstation controllers of the world all have this feature. If yours doesn't, there must be some alternative way of doing it. For the PS and Xbox controllers, the "button" is called R3.
As Steerpike said, knowing when to lock on or off is key to effective combat.
Also, I agree that the Drake Sword, ultimately, is useless because it has no scaling whatsoever. If you already have the stats for it early on, then by all means use it. But ditch it ASAP.
EDIT: What Steerpike said: the fact that you've made it this far with no lock-on is pretty impressive.
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Well no fscking wonder I lost half my native cognitive ability to twitch neurons recruited to run twin thumb sword battles in full threed-hovercam mode. Ancient memories from grade 3 that I was particularly fond of now run the left shield thumbstick. First grade teacher (Smith? Wilson?) now gone forever to those cells that run the upside down facing backward combat.
To be honest, other than this one combat problem, I'm not sure I'd use it very much.
My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude
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You're like Kaspar Hauser in Every Man for Himself and God Against All, locked in a closet at birth and raised without language until early middle age, when you're suddenly released into a bright world and you have to learn how to talk, only you miss your closet and the quiet of not having language and it's all too much so you're in this really boring movie and then you die. Given that you've made it to Anor Londo without ever targeting an enemy (!) I can see why you'd not feel the need to use it much.
Typically the opposite is true: players target everything, which is ill-advised. The target can mess with you at times, with your orientation and so forth; and there are also times when it's just a bad idea to be targeting a foe. Veteran players probably split their time about 50/50. Even if you use it for nothing else, it's handy for bows and necessary for crossbows. It's also useful when you want to back away from an enemy, as you saw in the video.
How the F did you kill those blowflies in the Blighttown swamp without targeting them?
Note to self: never antagonize Helmut because he's a badass.
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
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You asshats are all laying around the silo on your chaise loungers swilling the chilled Tap-Repeatedly ale when one of you jumps up shouting, "Let's see how long Helmut takes to figure out running!" and then you all laugh uproariously about the place. RIGHT? Just you see when the aliens come and the only people left uneaten are those who can drive 8:00 and under on the Nordschliefe (fuck, did I even spell that right?). WILL I LEND A HAND, NO I WILL NOT.
I am very adept at the bow at range which you can zoom in and aim, and the katana cuts from high to low (and low to high) and that sorts the blowflies very nicely, if you must know. Is that why the crossbow is so useless? You can probably lock it onto something and get aiming for free. DAMN YOU ALL.
My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude
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What I wouldn't give to see video of your first (and second) play-throughs.
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I didn't know about target lock at first but I found out about it a bit more quickly than Helmut. I can see me spending loads of time grinding around Undead Parish just practising backstabbing and fighting without target lock, both of which I'm rubbish at. I err on keeping target lock on all the time, which I think is part of my problem with the gargoyles, especially when they take off and I end up skygazing. (That, plus I've realised that with the gargoyles I never use my shield. Really don't understand why I've lasted so long in some rounds.) For the record, I'm not really frustrated with the gargoyles. I'm not expecting to beat them on my own, and I've had a couple of sessions where I've had 8-10 bouts in a row without getting mad, but I think last night I was tired and tetchy to begin with. Not a good mindset, especially for this game.
Re levelling up/damage scaling - does that mean that the figures that turn blue when you select an attribute to upgrade could vary depending on the weapons you're holding? So a STR upgrade when you're equipped with a halberd would give different figures to a STR upgrade if you were equipped with a Black Knight Greatsword - ??? (I'd love to be able to use the BKG. Apparently I can use it use two-handed but - um. Had a go and it was A Bit Unwieldy.)
So anyway, back to the game: inspired by a LP video, I went back to Firelink Shrine then - down the steps and the lift to New Londo Ruins. Tiptoed very nervously around there, picking up various souls n stuff (didn't explore much - went down to the bridge that goes over the water and thought, "Naaaah"), then went along the narrow paths to Valley of the Drakes and came across the dead-looking dragon.
Now, I had seen this in the video. I knew that the dragon got woken up by picking up one of the three items near it, and when that happened there was good chance you were pretty much dead. So it could end up being a suicide run but worth it because of what you picked up.
Trouble was, I couldn't remember which item woke it up.
OK, I thought, it's Dark Souls. It'll let me pick up the first two items near its head no problem, give me a confidence boost, then I'll grab the safer-looking item between its claws and get killed. Whatever.
Picked up the first item, went for the next - kaboom, dragon woke up, I rolled away blindly and somehow somehow somehow - I survived. I was on a sliver of about 2% health, but I had survived.
I'm really not proud of what I did next. If there had been more room, maybe I'd've tried a fair fight (maybe) but it's so close to a precipice there. I took the coward's route and picked it off with arrows. And it just sat there and took them. No roaring, or lunging, or protesting - it just took arrow after arrow and at no point did it seem to realise it was slowly dying. I killed it and scampered back to FS with 3000 more souls, a sword and what looks like a really useful shield, and a dragon scale, and a sense of a desolate, hollow (hah) victory.
This game's made me feel sad. How did that happen? Thanks DS.
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This game's made me feel sad.
Oh Simplen00b, you haven't even begun to feel sad yet. Sadness is Dark Souls' middle name. Dark Sadness Souls. No shit. Once you're through it all (or now, if you like) be sure to catch the "Prepare to Cry" series on YouTube. "Bleak and Nihilistic" is Dark Souls' middle name. So it's Dark Sadness Bleak and Nihilistic Souls. That's what the birth certificate says.
BUT! There is no shame - none - in standing back and pelting a foe with arrows, any more than there's shame in taking advantage of the ledge trick to mow through Forest Hunters in Darkroot. You take what you can get in Dark Souls, y'know, and if something happens to be simpler than you'd expected, you take that too!
Take solace in the fact that that dragon was already dead, and really sick too. No dragon should hurl like that. Dragons have very delicate stomachs. It thanked you. It was grateful. Your moral dilemmas regarding dragons and dragonkind are only beginning, my friend. Just wait until you meet Crossbreed Priscilla.
I think last night I was tired and tetchy to begin with. Not a good mindset, especially for this game.
True! Never play a Souls game angry. It's a slippery slope that can ruin the experience and drive you away. If you find yourself getting mad, just stop. Play some Saints Row or something. Make a sandwich. Clean the kitchen. Don't keep playing thinking things will improve, because they won't. Never never never never play a Souls game angry.
I think the blue-ness of a number implies that totals out to be better than what you currently have equipped, but that may just be Dark Souls 2. Xtal and Botch will know, they know all kinds of stuff.
As for the Black Knight Greatsword, that thing held me until a little past the halfway point. Personally I prefer smaller lighter swords now that I know enough to have preferences (back then I just wanted the highest number), but BKG is solid if you can get used to the weight and moveset. It too only upgrades to +5, but I think it scales better than the Drake Sword.
In Dark Souls 2 I'm migrating away from swords toward poking devices. I was a big Winged Spear fan in Demon's Souls, and I've been enjoying the Partizan immensely. Another weapon I've been really impressed with is the Shotel. Takes some getting used to, but it has a lot of advantages.
My brother, being lazy and weird, started Dark Souls as a Deprived character and played through the whole damn game with the wooden club he started with. Never tried another weapon. Which I guess goes to show that you can get through it no matter what...
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
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does that mean that the figures that turn blue when you select an attribute to upgrade could vary depending on the weapons you're holding? So a STR upgrade when you're equipped with a halberd would give different figures to a STR upgrade if you were equipped with a Black Knight Greatsword – ???
Exactly.
Very cool that you evaded the Undead Dragon. As you pointed out, the gear he's guarding is a typical target for suicide runs upon first arriving at Firelink. The sword has a Faith requirement, and is ultimately not that great (like the Drake Sword) but that shield can help immensely against the Gargoyles due to its very high fire defense. It also looks really cool.
There's a great story about the director of Dark Souls, Miyazaki, and that dragon. Apparently when the first design for the dragon was submitted to him, it was much more grotesque and horrific. He rejected it, stating that he preferred all things - even an undead dragon cursed to spend an eternity clinging to a cliff edge - to have a certain dignity to them. We like Miyazaki.
And there's no shame in picking him off from a distance, especially since there's pretty much no way to avoid his poison breath.
If you're feeling a bit adventurous, you can do a quick run into New Londo. Stand on that rickety bridge you mentioned and look to the right. You'll see an item not far off. After the bridge, hang a right while avoiding the ghosts (you can't hurt them or block their attacks right now). Make a run for the item (more ghosts will appear) and grab it. If you're quick you can homeward bone out, but no biggie. I won't tell you what it is, but it's very useful.
Rule #2: Double-tap
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Smough and Ornstein are dead. Again. Took a lot longer this time round. Invasions were very frequent, clearly that's a major chokepoint and with reduced numbers, that's where the invaders hang. Lo, my controller gave a interesting crackle when I pressed the thumbsticks, as the switches clicked for the first time. The chief advantage in locking on, that I found, was that I was able to keep an eye on your summon mate's health and to estus up more efficiently.
I've made my Baldur side sword divine for my trip through the Catacombs. I have a tendency to hit the walls a lot more with the wild swinging, but I'm onside with the low endurance requirements and low lag. I'm within an hour or two of where I was before the 'event'
My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude
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And Gravelord Nito goes down! This represents progress. A royal pain. One of the easier battles once you got down to just him, but in my last playthrough the divine weapon I had was not enough to kill the skeletons. For some reason they would not die. This time around I had something a little stronger but it was still a pain to get them out of the way and get resorted. I was also constantly getting the underground blade spam, despite not having any form of light about me. Good riddance.
My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude
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Nicely done, Helmut! I did that run third of the four and also found Nito to be one of the less brutal fights, but having him out of the way is a weight off. Where are you headed next?
I got good advice from someone around that time: those little skele-babies prowling around Nito's lair are laden with Humanity. You can't get back there from Nito's room, which makes farming it more of a pain, but if you're short on the stuff you can accumulate it much faster than you will from the Depths rats.
Fight on, Chosen Undead!
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
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There's a great story about the director of Dark Souls...stating that he preferred all things – even an undead dragon cursed to spend an eternity clinging to a cliff edge – to have a certain dignity to them.
Yeah, he nailed it.
I won't tell you what it is, but it's very useful.
I think I know, from the same video - the guy made a suicide run to that item first and then went to Valley of the Drakes. Thing is, I have no sense of direction and didn't trust I'd remember the right route. I did not want to get lost in NLR.
Anyway, having been taken up with RL for the last few days, I've just reverted to an old save game (after killing Havel, but before getting to Undead Parish and killing Taurus Demon). Keenly aware that after loads of grinding and cheesing mini-bosses, I'm fairly levelled up but still lacking some basic combat moves (I genuinely don't think I've done a backstab on an alerted opponent yet).
Plus, it gives me back some lightning resin which I had wasted in my bouts with Taurus D. I'll get them darn gargoyles sometime.
UPDATE: Re-reverted back after realising that I couldn't bypass Taurus Demon as (for some reason) I thought I could. And I have done some backstabbing, just not on someone where you get the 'push them off your sword with your foot 'animation. And the gargoyles are now down (pretty quick fight with Solaire's help) and now I may try to tweak Capra D's chops so I can get into the Depths. Or I'll go and do something completely different.
UPDATE (2): And Capra Demon is down. Honestly can't remember taking the dogs out - just rolled up the stairs to the arch after a bit of a stomping and then madly flailed around with my claymore while trying to remember to keep boosting my health and suddenly realised it was just him and me. After having my usual success with a plunging attack i.e. absolutely none whatsoever, I ended up right in front of him and somehow managed to RT him to death before he got any decent hits in.
Don't think it took more than 5-6 attempts to beat him, which is quite satisfying, especially as that schlep through Lower Undead Burg was a bit of a pain. It may have helped that I did a load of grinding to level up my vitality. Much as I'm enjoying this game, I don't think I'm that good at it so I'm probably going to take a bit of a tank approach. May take the trip to the Depths so I can upgrade my claymore while trying to avoid being cursed. Yay!
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