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since humanity is not that hard to come by, I typically kindle as many as I can.
That makes sense, much as it goes against my Scrooge-like penny (soul) pinching.
if you plan to do the Tomb of the Giants next
TotG hasn't even crossed my radar yet. I honestly have no idea where it is - if it's a continuation/off-shoot of the catacombs (which would make sense, I guess), I completely missed it (I homeward-boned back out of the boss fight).
Which I'm fine with at the moment, cuz what I've heard about that place makes it sound scary. I mean, really scary. Scary by the Dark Souls standard of scary.
@Helmut - well, it's a way away, but I may give NG+ a go (if only to see whether it's as awful as some people make it out to be), so your tip about the kindled fires is really useful. I can definitely see me playing it again, but I suspect I'll just restart with a different character build (more range attacks. I like range attacks).
Back in my current game - hazy plan at the mo is to go back to Undead Asylum to get the Peculiar Doll, then commit myself to the Painted World. Hooo mama.
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Helmut that cache of humanity in the Parish belonged to someone. I won't say who, but for me it was one of the more infuriating things about the game. I missed out on a key encounter and with it some of the best miracles in the game. That was the first character I ever finished the game with too.
Tomb of the Giants is indeed scary even by Dark Souls standards. It's a must visit for Faith builds. The earlier the better.
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Synonamess Botch said
Tomb of the Giants is indeed scary even by Dark Souls standards. It's a must visit for Faith builds. The earlier the better.
Oh dear. I think Faith is about the one attribute I haven't levelled up at all. Ah well. I'll get there when I get there.
Now in the Painted World, and, boy, talk about brutally beautiful. Only done one foray and I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to level up the bonfire. The foes don't seem to be that strong so far, but there's a lot of them and it's been easy to get swarmed (which in my world means 'more than one at a time').
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The first time I went to the Painted World was kind of an accident and I was under-powered, so I really hated it. It's got some of the most treacherous foes in the game. But it has grown on me since it's such a masterfully designed space. I think Xtal has said it's one of the first if not the first levels From designed. Enjoy!
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The Painted World is one of my favorites. I saw it listed in a Wiki months and months before I got there, when I was probably pre-Gargoyles. Just the name was so evocative, it was a place I was really eager to visit. And it didn't disappoint.
Simple, a few pages back I describe a crucial shortcut to Helmut, you might want to check it out. It's handy.
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
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Well, my experience of Painted World was one of frustration more than enjoyment and I ended up researching the quickest way to get out of there. Not sure why I didn't enjoy it - I loved the atmosphere and visual design, but - yeah. Dunno. Part of it was (even though I knew it was the case before I went in), I wasn't keen on not being able to go back once I was in.
So, managed to cheese the Undead Dragon first time round (again)(poor thing) and scampered past Priscilla without laying a finger on her. Then I wandered around Darkroot, beat Hydra and Sif, levelled up strength and endurance then went back to Anor Londo and finally defeated Super Smough. And what's doing my head in a bit is that I did it with wooden crossbow bolts. Wooden crossbow bolts. IT WAS GREAT.
So now I have the Lordvessel, which may actually encourage me to try PW again as it seems to be on the list of warpable bonfires, so I guess I can leg it whenever I feel like it. Funny how life works out. Death. Wevs.
EDIT: And I've just read the wiki about the Lordvessel and warping from PW.
Damn.
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The Painted World is probably the best/easiest place in the game to farm souls, and like most other spots it's an easy run once the shortcut is open. Unlike most others, though, you can actually open that shortcut almost immediately provided you're able to endure a reasonable amount of fall damage.
Structurally I agree with you, Simplen00b, PW is sort of bleah. It's small and grungy and the use of toxin is always unwelcome. My own feeling when I realized that I was stuck there was "Oh shit, what did I just do..." because I got my ass handed to me the first thirty or so times. The place had quagmire written all over it, and unlike the rest of the game the only way out is through. After a while things eased up, though, in part because I did accumulate about sixteen soul levels as a result of those first thirty tries. 
Congratulations on Smough! And Ornstein, I guess. He makes a cameo in Dark Souls 2, though he goes by a different name.
With the Lordvessel in hand, the game does change a lot. It's easier to visit places like Blighttown because it's easier to leave them, and you'll find yourself remembering errands you've meant to run but been putting off.
I still can't get the game to run on PC. Crashes right after the window opens. This is a common problem and I haven't done any troubleshooting, but still, I'm Sad Steerpike.
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
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From PW I learned the value of the completely tailored armour set. By choosing a set with high toxic resistance, I went from killing one toxic gasbag and suffering the slow toxic burn, to clearing out the whole area without filling my toxic meter once. That made part of the area so much easier. I think my impression prior to this area was that the armour was slightly tailored for one ability or the other, whereas this area made it very clear just how much the advantage of changing kit was.
@Steerpike, don't be sad. I've suffered two completely corrupted characters, the second time I wasn't offered the ability to restore from the cloud.
My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude
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Re PW: once I switched from my claymore back to my Black Knight Greatsword, the poison became far less of a problem as it knocked the bodies away before the poison got to me.
I've made my way through Duke's Archives - the prison area was OK, but the library part just went into near Blighttown-level of tiresome grind and I think I'm getting a bit of Dark Souls fatigue. It wasn't particularly difficult - I had good armour/shield and good number of estus flasks - but it just wasn't much fun. I got so fed up at one point I started a brand new game as a sorceror, and OK, it was cool beating the Asylum Demon very first go with a dagger, but but but but but. I've opened up the access to the crystal caves and frankly they look even less fun than DA, and I think I'm going to have a break. Just for a bit. I mean, I haven't really played anything else for the last six weeks.
Frankly, I'm astonished I'm still sane. (I think I'm still sane anyway, but I may no longer be the best person to judge.)
I will return when I've had a Bit of a Rest.
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Simple, I felt kind of the same way there. I spent an enormous amount of time (and resources) in the Crystal Cave and the Tomb of the Giants. I also have to say that I don't know why Steerpike kept raving on about how it was after S&O it was clear to him that he could finish the game, since it certainly wasn't clear to me. In hindsight, tho, the four soul areas were largely devoid of anything all that important. I don't think I changed my weapon, armour, spells, or anything else after I got to that stage of the game. The boss battles were (with the exception of Gwyn at the end) also easier than expected. So while it seems endless at this stage, I found that the four henchmen areas fell really quickly, once I knew where I was going and I stopped running all over the place trying to pick up every item (and getting killed in the process). YMMV, if you don't spoiler up, or are more interested than I was in some of the more offbeat covenants you can find. That's what the second playthrough is for.
My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude
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The Duke's Archives is easily my least favorite part of the game. The lock-on range is totally gimped in there for some reason, which is extremely annoying. Solo-ing Seath and cutting its tail off is an exercise in tedium. The reward is totally worth it though - a Moonlight Greatsword-wielding battle-mage is a really fun build.
I've always enjoyed the first "half" of the game more, mainly because it seems more cohesive.
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I've always enjoyed the first "half" of the game more
Quoted for truth. The first half, right up to Fat Man and Little Boy, works better. The level design is better, the bosses are (generally) better, and the sense of self is better: in that first half you get the fire hose. So many people, so many places to go. Who to trust? Who to talk to? How to prioritize? I barely knew what I was doing there. There's a sense of desperation in the first half. It doesn't matter if you're a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.
The second half is mostly weaker for practical reasons (that is, the level design is weaker). But also by that point, the running is over. You're familiar with all the paths, you've probably worked out where you stand on stuff, there are few surprises for a Lordran veteran. You need not fear every corner you round.
I hated the Crystal Cave, it was ridiuclous. Easily the worst part of Dark Souls. The Tomb of the Giants is similarly obnoxious. Take a break, Simple, recharge those batteries.
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
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Well, despite the current fairly intense demands of RL, I relented and booted it up again, and after 30-40 minutes p***ing about in the Crystal Caves I gave up (again). Didn't stop having fun as much as never really started.
However, I then went back to my new sorceror build in Undead Burg and had a blast. I have no burning desire to 'beat the game' (at the moment, anyway) and I can see me just playing up to O&S in various builds, and maybe maybe maybe even exploring the options of (i) levelling up weapons rather than stats, and (ii) jolly co-operation, which I've never managed so far. (I've tried to summon and be summoned but failed; the only online interaction I've had is being invaded the few times I've been human from kindling fires.)
Although, even with all my wealth of experience, I'm still pretty rubbish and get killed fairly regularly, so it may never happen. Still having fun though. Which, after Duke's Archives, is nice.
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I then went back to my new sorceror build in Undead Burg and had a blast. I have no burning desire to 'beat the game' (at the moment, anyway) and I can see me just playing up to O&S in various builds
That's pretty much my bag right there. I've actually only completed the game a few times. I was always more interested in trying out different characters and styles, and building them up. Maybe that's why I dislike Dark Souls 2 so much - I'm completely uninterested in trying out new characters because it all feels like a mushy mess.
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I'm having fun working out how to get through familiar areas with a physically weaker build than the first playthrough. Discovering new ways of range-attacking/cheesing foes is so satisfying.
Btw, I realised I completely misunderstood the whole cursing/purging stone thing first time round. I had this idea that when I started getting cursed, having the purging stone meant that it was absorbing the curse and that's why the meter went down. Now I realise that it's just a question of keeping out of the mist, which I've managed to do second time round too, despite falling into the area where you have to get past 7-8 of the cursefrogs to get out, which I really hadn't planned to do. Get the large ember and free the pyromancer guy. That was the plan. (Some day I'll learn how to jump with a higher success rate than 1 in 5.)
Also, I have done my easiest descent into Blight Town ever - yes, so it was via the "easy back route", but if there's a chance to fall off, I've usually taken it - and haven't been hit by a mosquito once (yay soul arrows). Now farming large titanite to upgrade my claymore.
DS is fun again. Which is nice.
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I'm poking around with a magic based character. Nothing very heavy. Definitely some harder parts early on in the game, say, with the undead burg basement being the first of what I suspect will be many places where it's hard to get a spell off fast enough. I am less than enamoured with the constant lock-on required to hit with magic.
I also wore through the rubber contact points of my thumbsticks and now am trying to work the slippy black plastic remnants.
My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude
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Helmut said
I'm poking around with a magic based character. Nothing very heavy. Definitely some harder parts early on in the game, say, with the undead burg basement being the first of what I suspect will be many places where it's hard to get a spell off fast enough.
Yeah, undead burg basement was even more of a pain than the first time. I opened up the shortcuts as soon as I could and then went the long way round to get to the Capra Demon/Depths just to avoid those wretched assassins. Mind you, it wasn't till I got down to Blight Town that I realised I hadn't upgraded my vitality at all, so it wasn't surprising I was getting killed so easily. (Level 9 VIT in a poisoned swamp. Not good.)
I am less than enamoured with the constant lock-on required to hit with magic.
Given how far you got through DS without knowing lock-on existed, I'm not surprised.
I'm finding soul arrows really useful at points, especially for enemies below you, e.g. taking out most of the dogs in the firekeeper soul area of Blight Town from the upper walkway made that area much easier. Heavy soul arrows not so much, although I did need them to beat Havel.
I also wore through the rubber contact points of my thumbsticks and now am trying to work the slippy black plastic remnants.
After 150 hours with the gamepad, I still don't think my thumbs have understood the technology. My brain screams "Roll away! AWAY!!!", and my thumbs say "Roll into them! Or to the side! No problemo!". Thanks thumbs.
General update - on my second bout with the gargoyles, I killed #2 and got #1 down to about 5% health. Encouraged by this, I then did another four rounds getting pulverised before I got Solaire to help. Quelaag I found much harder this time round, partly because she was much more generous with her AoE attack. Got Mildred to help me with that too (eventually - I had to give her a bit of a "motivational team talk" at one point when I was battling away with Q on my own at one end of the arena while she just danced around on her own at the other).
And now I'm in Anor Londo. How did I get here so quick?
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And now I'm in Anor Londo. How did I get here so quick?
That element of it remains the most surprising thing to me. I finished Dark Souls and moved on to other stuff until the Prepare to Die version came out for PC, at which point Xtal and I did a little jolly cooperation the evening of its release (you can see him doing all the heavy lifting while I bumble around in the Epilogue video). Anyway, it had been months since I'd played - and then on a PS3 controller, which feels different - but that night I got all the way past the Bell Gargoyles, a feat that had taken me weeks the first time around.
This was something that really concerned me with Dark Souls 2, which I've just recently gotten back into after associating it with an RL trauma it has nothing to do with. I thought that since we've learned the "language" of Dark Souls, which is basically that the game manipulates your fear of penalty but doesn't actually exact them, the feel would be different. In general, though, the changes they made accommodate that while keeping the same general feel.
But like you guys, I had troubles with different parts on the second time through. Capra Demon remains a nemesis of mine. Blighttown has taken its rightful place as The Worst Ever (though the eerie, terrifying Gutter from DkS2 might overtake it). Quelaag is a really hard battle. Etc etc etc. I really need to haul my PC back into the living room, I still can't get used to playing with a controller at a desk. It's weird, I tell you.
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
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I look back on Blighttown more fondly than I used to. I think were it not for the framerate issues I would actually enjoy going there. It was treacherously designed but also expertly designed. There is usually a goal in sight, which you can't really say about the Duke's Archives or the Tomb of Giants, which most of us have agreed are not the greatest.
Dark Souls doesn't feel too long to me like DS2 does but the latter stages do feel a bit lacking as time passes and I sober up from the 16 or so months of almost nothing but one game.
The designers at From have so many good ideas but I think with both Dark Souls games they've lacked a bit of focus at times. Only Demon's Souls seems to avoid this issue and not by coincidence it is the shortest (smallest) of the three. I acknowledge that of course it's easy to criticize and Monday morning quarterback after so much time has passed, but I will anyway. While Dark Souls could have used a slight bit of trimming-- maybe shorten the Archives, Tomb, Izalith-- I don't think it suffers too much. But cracks begin to show with DS2. Strong as I think it is at times it feels much too sprawling in a poor way. The game would be strengthened if there was less content and more polish. There is bloat that diminishes the good. I'm looking at you, Harvest Valley. And you, Aldia's Keep. And you, Black Gulch, as fun as it is to get through one time, I don't ever want to again. Bastard statues.
As an example, there is an optional boss called Darklurker, but not only is this boss optional, it takes a good deal of precise intent to stumble upon, which aren't things that go hand in hand. Unfortunately this, one of the best bosses in the Souls series, is buried deep within a dark chasm that requires you happen upon a particular NPC character 3 separate times and then join the covenant he offers you, then revisit all the locations and conquer these instances. All of that required to have a shot at this brilliant boss encounter. They would have done well to simply put this boss fight on the main path of the game. It would be as infamous as Flamelurker. But...hindsight.
I hope that Bloodborne (or DS3 if there is one) takes the less is probably more, probably better, probably more-likely-to-be-accomplished-well route. I don't know how many times I can repeat this in my lifetime. I welcome a game full of Blighttowns and Painted Worlds as long as they know when to stop. In Miyazaki I trust.
If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever
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After seeing some uplifting videos of someone attempting the Crystal Cave, I went back to my original build to try it out myself and, much to my surprise, after a handful of deaths I got to the point where I could get from the Duke's bonfire to the clam cave in about two minutes. I then had several sessions clam-farming/getting killed by Seath, and I now have more purging stones and twinkling titanite than I know what to do with.
Which was, y'know, pretty cool, but then I noticed my estus flask count kept getting added to. "Mmm", I thought, "must be lots of new players coming to the bonfire." More in hope than expectation, I put my summons sign down and got summoned five times in the next 40-50 minutes. The first three didn't go especially well, the fourth one was great, and in the fifth one we got invaded by a 64k'er, as I know understand they're called. Full gushy oh-wow-I-finally-played-with-a real-person-online-who-wasn't-out-to-kill-me stories in spoiler tags so jaded jolly co-operators can ignore them:
Summoner #1 - Someone who very confidently pointed in the direction of Seath. Fought our way past the golems (everyone wants to fight the golems) and got to the top of the path leading to the Crystal Cave, at which point he ignored the right turn, scampered to the very end of the crystal and fell off the end (which, to be fair, is what I did first time round). I did wonder if it was his way of saying he didn't like my playing style (tank), but see #3.
#2 - Someone who obviously had no idea where to go. Opened the staircase for her (I think it was a her), then led her down into CC. Showed her the secret path to the first shiny, then got onto the invisible path leading to the bridge golem, and – oh dear.
Stopped halfway along the path, got the attention of the golem with an arrow and then ran back to safety, expecting her to follow. She didn’t. Went back down as the golem approached, tried to point back up to the top of the path, and then, just as the golem leapt in to attack, I got disconnected from the game.
Can’t imagine she was too happy.
#3 - Someone who looked very similar to my first summoner. Got to the top of the path to CC and then I got hit by two golems simultaneously and died. If it was the same guy as #1, I suspect he won't be asking me back. (NB: from checking GfWL, it wasn't the same player. So #1 may have been fed up with me after all.)
#4 - Undaunted – OK, slightly daunted, but what the hey - put my sign down again and got summoned by a very lively female avatar. She evidently had made it to Seath before, so I just followed her down, whacking golems and clams hither and thither as needed. Got swallowed by a clam like a wally but managed to survive, and then we went into Seath.
As I haven't beaten Seath, I'm not sure of the best tactic yet, so - I just tanked it. Waded into Seath's face – OK, belly – and whacked him with my black knight greatsword while she chugged estus like an crack-crazed alcoholic on my behalf. And he went down.
I think she was happy. I tried to bow modestly while she jumped around but got taken back to the bonfire before my clumsy thumbs could do their thing. Very satisfying.
#5 - Got invaded by someone with 64k health, so, yeah. As expected.
Since then I've been summoned a couple more times, and I need to change my GfWL name to I-Can-Get-You-To-Seath-And-Then-Tank-Him-Otherwise-I'm-Pretty-Useless-Frankly396.
The first summoner evidently hadn't got far into the CC - somehow we managed to beat the first bridge golem without either of us falling off (note to self: don't try to teach a summoner how to cheese that bridge golem. It doesn't work), but then he insisted on going for the blue titanite slab shiny. I couldn't remember the path for that, so I followed behind him until he fell to his death. (Bad summonee. Bad bad summonee.)
The second one - well, in retrospect, I can only assume he had battled his way to that bonfire direct from the first entrance into Duke's Archives, if that's possible. The shortcut hadn't been opened. Cue ten minutes of both of us faffing about cluelessly until we got invaded by someone who one-shotted me and then my host a few seconds after. Ho hum. But yeah. Finally. Some jolly co-operation. And that victory over Seath was sweet (I just need to get it done for me now).
I think the main thing it's taught me is that it's good to be really really really familiar with the area where you're putting your sign down. OK, I could (and maybe I will) learn the path to the blue titanite slab. But work out how to open the shortcut from that bonfire? Mm. Prollynotgonnappen.
But what's really cool is that an area I was loathing the idea of taking on suddenly gave me one of the highlights of the game so far. Jolly well done you, Dark Souls!!
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