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Dark Souls
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Steerpike
Subtropical Southeastern Michigan
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July 17, 2014 - 10:32 am
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I might have called it a  day at the Crystal Cave if it weren't for summons. There's a sort of balcony that the bonfire's on and it's like a clown car of summon signs. I assume Seath-farming is profitable or something, since there are usually (or were, last I was there) so many summonees available. It's one of the few spots in the game where you can drop a summon sign right at the fire, which is hella handy.

To tell the truth, my description in the Diaries wasn't embellished at all. I'd fought Seath twice as a White Phantom (that is, summoned by someone else, I keep using Demon's Souls terminology) and been vanquished both times, but I had a general idea of what the fight would be like.

Chaotic is what the fight would be like. Roaring and smashing and running around, crystal spikes erupting from the earth, crystal fragments flung hither - and sometimes yon - more roaring, crystal breath from the crystal dragon waving his crystal paws and biting with his crystal teeth while drinking Crystal Light™ from a crystal goblet on a crystal table in thehhrrrgggggnnn

But it's fair to say that I never beat Seath the Scaleless. I summoned two beefy phantoms who seemed to know what they were doing then I hung back and contemplated whether Estus has any calories while they pummeled Mr Monster into crystal dust, which I then sifted through (from a safe distance) until I unearthed the Lord's Soul. I imagine myself standing at the very perimeter of the mountain of crystal shavings, poking gingerly with a halberd or something and then carefully fishing the soul toward me.

Now Simple - an important storyline trigger happens in the vicinity of the Crystal Cave. Assuming you've hit all the triggers leading up to it, you'll see one golem in the forest that's gold instead of blue. Pummel it into submission (be sure to stop swinging as soon as it goes down) and you'll encounter a new character with an interest in someone you've already met. You need to meet this person if you hope to complete one of the most tragic and depressing sub-stories in Dark Souls. If you see no gold golem, don't lose sleep about it; all it means is that you won't be gloomy for several days sometime in the future.

One of the nicest small things they added to Dark Souls 2 is that summons stick around for about ten seconds after the boss is defeated. Gives you a chance to get off a bow and a wave, which I like.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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July 17, 2014 - 12:07 pm
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There's the good and the bad of the wiki. I was garbed in the finest of curse resist armour,  I stood in exactly the right spot, and Seath did not hit me at all and was, in the end, by far the easiest of the four kings. Had I tried to beat him on my own without knowing those things,  it would have been very difficult. The very earliest days of release prior to this information being commonly available must have been frothy. My using the wiki still kind of bugs me, even though it's meant to be a lightly co-operative effort. To have beaten this game without it would have been a true achievement. 

Edit: I didn't use pyromancy in my first playthrough, but now see how the 'Combustion' spell is a quick, melee suitable sort of tool. I'm just at the top section of blighttown and am trying to put away my sword for good. I like the animation too, sort of, 'here, have a light sprinkle of dis' with tremendous effect. I also like how upgrading the flame only requires souls, and not stuff that requires a destination to farm. At least so far. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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July 17, 2014 - 1:34 pm
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The heady pre-wiki days were also what has come to be known (by me) as The Time Before One Point Oh Five. Like kids these days, who do not have to walk to school through snowdrifts as I did, people have forgotten what the Dark Times were like. But not I, nay. BP (Before Patch) was a cocktail of human misery and pain, spritzed with defeat and garnished with the Cherry of Humiliation.

Curses stacked in BP. Like, infinitely.

Most "minor" foes, such as the Burg Hollows, dropped no souls at all.

Drinking from the Estus flask didn't heal you, it killed you.

I made that last one up. But the others are true.

Better to have a wiki and know what you know than to have no wiki and wish you knew what you know!

EDIT: that fact is what makes Pyromancy so pyromantastic, Helmut. You can boost your Flame to +15 with just an investment of souls, using What's-His-Name -- Laurentius -- at Firelink and Quewhatever down in the Blighttown swamp. I believe that Intelligence still modifies the damage, but I might be wrong in that, it might depend entirely on Flame level.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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July 17, 2014 - 2:18 pm
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Steerpike, you're south of the border... weren't your snowdrifts, like, 1 cm high? Sorry, that would be like 1/2 inch? 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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July 17, 2014 - 3:09 pm
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Hey, mister, Michigan practically is Canada. I understand every single word xtal says when we're on Skype, every word. Every "aboot," every "toomoorow," every "eh." You have to drive SOUTH to get to your frozen realm from where I am. That may have more to do with isthmuses and peninsulae and stuff than geography, but still. SOUTH.

Our snowdrifts are many centimeters high! What is a centimeter?!

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

simplen00b
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July 19, 2014 - 7:35 pm
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Assuming you've hit all the triggers leading up to it, you'll see one golem in the forest that's gold instead of blue.

I saw the gold golem in one of the jolly co-op sessions, and thought "Wow! Don't remember seeing that before!" So either (i) I didn't hit the triggers in my own game, or (ii) I did, pulverised GG to dust and then forgot about it.frown

My using the wiki still kind of bugs me

I've made my peace with it. Tbh, I'm really not worried about knowing everything about the story line, whether I learn it in-game or read it on the wiki. I'm having enough fun/challenge just getting better at moving/fighting. Which I'm still doing 150± hours into the game.

The heady pre-wiki days were also what has come to be known (by me) as The Time Before One Point Oh Five....people have forgotten what the Dark Times were like

Oh man. This has been the only time a video has helped make a level easier, because the main challenge in CC is finding out where to go. But I did spend some time trying to git gud at retrieving the blue titanite slab, and after about an hour of pain, I gave up. I could not have played the whole level blind. I would have smashed my laptop to bits with the Xbox controller.

Our snowdrifts are many centimeters high!

Here in UK-land we sometimes get several snowflakes at once and the whole country has to be shut down.

However, back in Lordran: my original build has now got past Seath, thanks to two wonderful summons who kept him busy while I got his tail, and then let me finish him off. BTW, is there any GfWL etiquette about sending a message of thanks or anything? I've just checked on GfWL - which I hardly ever do - and the 'send a message' option was grayed out, presumably as they were off-line. Just wondered. (Also, while it's nice that I got Seath's tail, I'd estimate it's gonna cost me between 800k - 1m souls to boost my INT the 16 levels I need to use it, so it may get fed to Frampt for one whole soul. Thanks Frampt!)

However, I've mainly been working a third build where I'm trying not to level up so much and instead work on improving my weapons and skills to help in jolly co-op. Currently on a level 18 warrior with a claymore+9, Havel's ring/Ring of F&P, and a black knight shield. Gonna start putting a summons sign down for the bell gargoyles and see what happens.

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Helmut
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July 22, 2014 - 6:43 pm
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Making my way through Sen's Fortress with my magic build. Interesting experience. Several enemies I never defeated before were trivial, while others are more difficult. The oddest are those that have strong body movements when they attack, as the soul spear tends to miss them. Prior to this, I had thought there were a lot more options for spells, but it just boils down to a few soul spears, and now I've got the homing soulmass from Big Hat Bill. At level 30 int, I'm finally starting to deal some serious damage. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Synonamess Botch
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July 23, 2014 - 9:21 am
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I am less than enamoured with the constant lock-on required to hit with magic. 

Given how far you got through DS without knowing lock-on existed, I'm not surprised.

I am disappointed that my "Master of Unlocking" nickname for Helmut has not caught on.

I never bothered with that infernal Blue Titanite Slab in Crystal Cavern.  Just too tedious, especially when co-oping.  I've always had success getting summoned for Seath.  I suspect Steerpike's observation about the summon area being right next to a bonfire has a lot to do with it.  There's also a pretty big level range of people looking for help.  One important point to consider is that many people are looking to cut off Seath's tail.

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Steerpike
Subtropical Southeastern Michigan
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July 23, 2014 - 12:45 pm
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I am disappointed that my "Master of Unlocking" nickname for Helmut has not caught on.

I endorse this nickname, Botch, but you have to understand that technically speaking Helmut is my arch-foe on this site, and we are sworn to destroy each other. Well, actually I think I'm sworn to destroy him; he's never really taken the bait and sunk to my level. But to encourage an amusing nickname like that would be contrary to my idiom, however valid and excellent a nickname it may be. I took over the site from Jen mostly to deny Helmut the ability to use it for evil (which, again, was not something he had, strictly speaking, shown any interest in doing, so my action was wholly preemptive). The invisible war fought for this place's soul is neverending, and most of you should count yourselves lucky that you know nothing about it. Some of the slanders Helmut has committed against me - most notably in the realm of a certain proposed real-estate partnership that would have been awesome - are simply unpardonable. I will not rest until he lies broken before me*.

I'm pretty sure I can fix my DkS crashing problem if I install DSFix and use it to manually disable anti-aliasing, then start the game, then shut down, then tweak my settings and start it up again. I enjoyed my pyromancer playthrough but never tried as a hardcore sorcerer, and I think it would be fun to do that. Some of those Big Hat spells kick-ass.

Simplenoob, you'll be pleased to learn that I visited your lovely nation for the first time (which is kinda sad for a man of my age) just last year, and hung out with Gregg, Mat, Lewis, Harbour Master, and many other fine lads at the Eurogamer Expo. I am a committed anglophile to begin with and I already speak perfect British on account of reading Harry Potter, but it was gratifying to discover that my book-learnin' translated into practice very effectively. Everyone seemed to understand me, and I understood everyone. Well, everyone understood me except when I tried to explain our health care system to Mat C, at which point his face took on a look of such confused horror I can only assume it was borne of terrified incomprehension.

 

I wish they'd patch Dark Souls so four to six players could go through more traditionally in co-op. It's against the spirit of the game, of course, but we'd have a lot of fun with that.

 

*That's not entirely true. I rest all the time. In fact I probably rest more than is healthy. I'm thinking about taking a nap right now.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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July 24, 2014 - 1:46 am
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@Simple, you may be gutted to learn that my real estate vision was to acquire a set of (albeit arid and warmish) tunnels under the very heart of the dance district in central London, where the Tap elitalia could have throb-thr-thro-thr-throbbed the night away dancing to disco and dubstep beats of the finest order. Steerpike, despite his claim of speaking fluent Harry Potter, eschewed this plan for his abandoned missle silo el-grandeur shithole in the middle of the fracked water tables of extended Southern Canada (cite: extrapolated war of 1812, etc. etc.) that seep extensive aromatic hydrocarbon and nano-fracting-hemi-bucktites into the very pool of ankle deep 'sludge' you're trying to muck out, continuously. 

Welcome to the site, for real this time. Your shift starts in 4 hours. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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July 24, 2014 - 9:38 am
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Typical Helmutian distortion of the truth! I ask you: is it wise, really, to listen to real estate opinions from someone who built his house out of straw? Helmut built his house out of straw. And rather than being properly ashamed of this odd decision, he posted photos and discussed the vagaries of straw architecture, right here on this very forum.

My missile silo would've been pimp. It wasn't flooded or seeping hydrocarbons or anything. It had no sludge. You know what it did have? Megaton-rated concrete and steel blast doors. A not-quite-functional-but-we-could've-fixed-it radar dome. 145 acres of prime land in the middle of nowhere, suitable for gardening, paintball games, tag, you name it. And not one but five 350-foot tiered vertical shafts that once held the proud flagbearers of patriotism, the bridges of democracy, the multiple independent reentry vehicles of freedom. That's right, America's phallic inferiority complex thermonuclear deterrent. A little thing I like to call the Minuteman MX. Take that, communism! Pow! 

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

simplen00b
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July 24, 2014 - 11:50 am
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Well, wow. What can I say? Both of those real estate concepts sound equally appealing. And that's not just me being diplomatic, no sir. A combination of both would be right up my street. Give me a mop and a bucket and those dusty dubgrime beats and I'm happy as Larry. The Toxic Cleanup Groovemeister, that's what I'm known as round these parts. ('These parts' being a tiny cluster of neurons that have just connected together in my brain for the first time ever.)

Anyway, back in Whacky Happy Fun Land, I finally manned up and took my SL87 tank into New Londo Ruins. My observations: -

1. Covetous Dragon Ring rocks. No danger of running out of transient curses.

2. Light crossbow +10 rocks. 2 shots and them ghosts is dust.

3. Locking on when getting attacked by 2-3 ghosts on a narrow staircase over dark deep water goes into the 'Does not rock' category. Falling into water was my only cause of death - none of the enemies caused me any real trouble. But, once I got the v. large ember, I really didn't mind dying at the breath of one of the Drakes. 

It was a blessed release, quite honestly. I thought the Depths and Blight Town were unpleasant (and I certainly died far more often in those areas) but, I dunno - atmospherically? contextually? - they're a walk in sunlit woodlands compared to NLR. OK, I've got to the stage where scampering back to Blight Town with my SL18 build to farm more large t-shards is now a fairly routine experience, so maybe I'll get to the same level of ho-hum-yeah-well-whatever with NLR.

But not this time.

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xtal
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Steerpike said
I enjoyed my pyromancer playthrough but never tried as a hardcore sorcerer, and I think it would be fun to do that. Some of those Big Hat spells kick-ass.

 

You should try a pure sorcerer some day. You can still have a magic shortsword or something comparable for emergencies. I was quite pleased with myself when my level 15 sorcerer made it to Anor Londo. That's where I truly started to have some trouble. I think I deleted that character to make room for another.

I think my favourite build ever though is the Black Iron Tarkus "cosplay" I made. That Greatsword fucks up so many people in PvP and I bet they shriek when I demolish their sad carcasses. Before Dks2 came out I was still working on this build and almost got it to level 170. I'm going for 99 Vitality because I can. Him or my Balder Side Sword+Crystal Magic Weapon dexterity Caterina onion bro.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Synonamess Botch
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July 24, 2014 - 2:30 pm
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Missile silos?  Anglo-tunnels?  I don't get it.

For me the worst part about New Londo Ruins was the ghosts - improperly equipped you can neither attack or guard against them.  Cursed weapons never seemed a useful proposition since they didn't prevent attacks.  And Simple, falling off a ledge while locked on is one of the more infuriating parts of this game.

But beyond all that, the thing that really got me about NLR was the fact that it was just waiting there, right from the start.  That entrance right under Firelink, with no obvious obstacles to entry.  That's the eeriest thing about it.  I avoided it for a long time because it screamed, silently, "You are not ready for me."

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simplen00b
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July 24, 2014 - 4:15 pm
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I was quite pleased with myself when my level 15 sorcerer made it to Anor Londo.

You should be. I recently tried to get through Sens Funhouse with a level 18 warrior and gave up eventually. (For my level 18 build for the bell gargoyles fight, my summons just stood back and fired heavy magic at them. One of the quickest BG boss fights I've ever had, and given how many I've helped with, that's saying something.)

@Synonamess - in tems of fighting the ghosts, I really didn't have much problem. One of my basic DS tactics is diving into a room and then diving straight back out again, and that seemed to help with not getting swamped. Also, at level 87 my shield and armour were pretty good so even when they got hits in they didn't cause major damage.  

But yeah - eerie. That's the word. The area isn't actually unpleasant until you drain the floodwater, but the whole atmosphere is really unsettling.

Missile silos?  Anglo-tunnels?  I don't get it. 

Me neither, tbh. Don't tell them, but I'm just doing a smile-and-nod routine. Whatever it is they're on about, it seems to mean something important to them.

EDIT: OK, somehow I managed to miss Steerpike dissing the straw build and bigging up the concrete bunkers and can no longer remain on the sidelines. Us here in Inglundland treasure our mud and straw architecture. We've got some that goes back hundreds of years and still house some of our wonderful and utterly deserving aristocracy (or some of their coal/horses/servants anyway). Can you say that of your Minuteman silos, Steerpike? Can you? I think not. (P.S. Feel free to use this as evidence for the innate superiority of concrete siloes.)

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Synonamess Botch
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July 24, 2014 - 5:47 pm
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Simple, regarding ghosts, I'm with you on the actual fighting part.  The thing that makes it tricky, other than the curse thing, is that they can move through walls (and floors and ceilings and) and quickly overwhelm you while you walk a tightrope of a ledge.  But yeah, once you get some good defense, they hardly scratch.

The Darkwraiths never bothered me as much, despite their grotesque masks.  That and they're very easy to back-stab.  One thing that always amused me was that big buildup to "The Seal".  You get the key to the Seal, and image it must be some awesome thing for holding back the Darkwraiths.  And then you find it's a crummy little door of iron bars.  Always brings a chuckle.

Simple, hearing about your experiments with builds makes me smile.  I've gotten so much fun out of low-level coop in the Burg and Parish with souped-up gear to protect the host from invaders.

I don't honestly know what my favorite build has been (I'll have to think on it).  I've had loads of fun with many.

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Steerpike
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July 25, 2014 - 4:52 am
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Simplenoob my good friend, you're talking to a man with a degree in Roman History, so rest assured, I have great appreciation for straw, thatch, wattle, daub, mud brick, regular brick, and what have you. And while we (I) tease Helmut for his straw house, apparently his power bill is, like, a dollar. A year. On account of straw insulation or something. My power bill is a lot more than that despite the alarmingly intelligent and annoyingly cheerful Nest thermostat I inexplicably bought a few months ago.

But straw has two major shortcomings. First, it's proven vulnerable to huff and puff attacks. More seriously, though, it is wholly unsuitable to act as a substrate for the long-term storage of nuclear weapons - to say nothing of its complete lack of utility in the realm of withstanding the high temperatures and pressures common in the staged solid-fuel deployment of intercontinental ballistic missiles. Simply put, a missile silo made of straw wouldn't be a good idea. And in my book, if you can't build a missile silo out of it, it's got a problem.

I'll just say that you stumbled on a very strange place when you posted on our forums. We've been around for fifteen years now, in one form or another, and the origin of the Tunnel vs. Silo War is buried deep in the mists of history. Honestly, Helmut and I may be the only two people with a clear memory of how it all began.

It began, by the way, with an unprovoked attack by Helmut on me. He described my silo as "manky" and "rundown," probably so nobody would look to closely at those horrid, overheated London Below tunnels he tried to foist on us.

We needed a missile silo (or a tunnel network) to act as High Command for the site. A nerve center of sorts. At the time, the U.S. government was selling missile silos at bargain-basement prices. Five million bucks and we could have been That Website With The Sweet Missile Silo Headquarters. Instead our headquarters is WordPress, which is more functional but less awesome.

 

ON THE SUBJECT OF DARK SOULS, it just doesn't like me. I deleted and reinstalled it yesterday, tried some ideas from the interwebs, ran the Windows Compatibility Thingy, all for naught. Which sucks because all this talk of it makes me want to play again.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

simplen00b
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July 25, 2014 - 10:15 am
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@Synonamess - I had the same thing with that door, but maybe the actual seal was the lever and huge floodgates - ?? But then, meeting the Darkwraiths and one-shotting them with my greatsword was a bit of an anti-climax too. ("You went through all this for these guys? You weren't trying hard enough.") One of them did get a humanity-sucking attack in, but I found one to replace it a minute later behind a pillar so yah boo. And it's still a really creepy place and I was glad to get out.

As far as my builds go, I'm not sure how much I am experimenting really. I'm switching between three characters (level 89, 50 and 27) and they're all pretty much big sword/strong defence builds. Which I'm fine with - as I've probably mentioned, DS is the first melee-based combat game I've ever played, and I'm (mostly) enjoying learning just how to move and fight better. Speaking of which:

I have finally done some backstabs! Proper, full-on, kick-em-off-your-sword backstabs! Yes! I am the master of Lordran! NB: Total number of backstabs achieved in nearly 200 hrs of gameplay: 5 (five). Total number of backstabs achieved in actual combat rather than creeping up on them unawares from behind: 1 (one). Although that was on a Blight Town troll, a nimble and agile creature that makes getting a backstab on one a universally-recognised rare and gloriously triumphant acheivYOURE ALL LAUGHING AT ME WHY ARE YOU LAUGHING STOP LAUGHING

@Steerpike - thanks for the clarification, and for allowing me to hurl my utterly uninformed opinions (no degrees for me) into such a sensitive issue without ejecting me from the premises. Your points about straw as a building material are actually troublingly well-argued - as Helmut's example shows, there is an growing trend towards straw-build in this country, and I can now see that something needs to be done by someone before something happens.

Re your Dark Souls/PC issues, all I can say is that I had absolutely no problems when I installed it on my laptop. Couldn't have gone smoother really. So it can be done! I hope that offers you a crumb of comfort in your misery.

I'll just say that you stumbled on a very strange place when you posted on our forum

Maybe...that's why...I feel...at home...here...
*smiles and gazes into middle distance with an unsettlingly calm intensity*

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Helmut
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July 25, 2014 - 11:27 am
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Well, there was this site maybe that started our speculation

Then we found this site:  

How cool is that? It comes with it's very own MI6 liason officer shown at the :19 mark. And if you listen carefully, I think you can hear the Skrillex beats coming in from overhead. I'm not going to say any more aboot it. What's done is done. 

NLR was my favorite place of the second half. It had the mood and back story worthy of it's place. Once I got my bearings. I'm finding the sorcery build to be very powerful at mid levels. One nice thing is that you don't have to split levels between endurance and dexterity, you can dump a lot into int, with maybe a bit in attunement which gives way more damage early. In the painted world, I was leveling up at 15,000 souls. Last time through, I was trying to farm at 27,000 souls/level which isn't much value. Looking forward to rescuing BHB the second time through to get some of the crystal homing soulmass spells. 

 

Edit: I like this: http://cvdazzle.com/ Anyone who is facially recognizable when coming to the Tap silo should not be allowed. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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July 25, 2014 - 8:07 pm
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Dangit, those are actually some pretty cool tunnels.

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