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Jaffe - 'shit or get off the pot'
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xtal
planet
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October 11, 2011 - 11:07 am
Member Since: April 19, 2009
Forum Posts: 1683
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I've had this link opened in my browser for months and meant to share it here long ago:

http://criminalcrackdown.blogs.....f-pot.html

Did anyone else read this? If you haven't, it's a short post followed by an incredibly long "[UPDATE]" diatribe railing against 'games as art' or whatever. Note #1: I don't care about the games as art movement, if it even is that, I'm not offended or riled up by his statements. I was just wondering if anyone else had read this and had an opinion on it?

The huge edit he adds in is way tl;dr ... his main point does come across in the initial post, but you get a better sense of it if you read the word vomit afterwards.

First of all, I think it would enhance his argument if he actually called out some games by name. I'm not sure what games he's actually talking about, though I'd like to know. Apparently these games involved shouting from rooftops about how great they were. Sounds to me like Jaffe is just masturbating to the thought of playing Twisted Metal.

Anyway, I just thought his post or article or whatever was a) narrow minded b) childishly argumentative (and towards what? 'art games' as a whole? 'Art games' don't get together every Thursday for tea and biscuits and discuss their strategy) and c) not constructive, mostly because of the tl;dr factor, and it got pretty bloody pedantic.

I dunno. Does he make any valid points? I guess so... but I think he's just talking out of his ass. What games are supposedly shouting about their greatness from rooftops and kneecapping the hopes of PURE developers?

Bleh, shit or get off the pot yourself, Jaffe.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Steerpike
Subtropical Southeastern Michigan
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October 12, 2011 - 1:12 pm
Member Since: April 10, 2009
Forum Posts: 3309
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Hmm. It seems Mr Jaffe's personality has, as usual, overshadowed otherwise potentially valid points. However, what I got from that essay was that it's the job of game journalists and critics to "force" developers into creating more artistic work. Why, exactly, does the critical branch of the industry - a branch typically derided and ignored by developers unless it's convenient - bear this responsibility? Are developers not able to grab the torch themselves?

I'll be the first to admit that I'm more forgiving of a game's potential artistic content and message than I am of a movie or novel. Games are still pretty young as a narrative art form. Games are at the chronological equivalent of DW Griffith's Rescue from an Eagle's Nest. Were that movie made today, critics wouldn't give it much credit for being artistic. At the time it was quite revolutionary. So while the artistic content of games may seem a little heavy-handed compared to other media, I tend to believe that's because the discipline of game development just isn't as nuanced as it will one day become.

I don't necessarily think that means I'm fawning over "arty" games that wouldn't get the same credit if they were a different medium. You're a game developer, you want to make some art, go nuts. I'll judge it according to its merits.

David Jaffe, however, is not really qualified to be the mouthpiece for anything. That dude's just too angry. Besides, who shits in a pot any more? Toilets, people. Toilets.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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xtal
planet
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October 12, 2011 - 4:53 pm
Member Since: April 19, 2009
Forum Posts: 1683
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I've been playing a lot of Fallout 3 lately and have noticed in a few slave pens the presence of buckets. That could be either slop feeding buckets, or shitting buckets.

So to answer your question: Wasteland captives/slaves may still shit in pots, or pot-like containers.

[Image Can Not Be Found]

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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geggis
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October 13, 2011 - 12:22 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2009
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I think I read this before the update.

I do agree with a lot of what Jaffe has to say especially given some of my recent experiences with pretty weak indie/arty 'games'. Understandably Jaffe isn't singling anything out but I can't help but feel his point might be a lot clearer if he did. That and the whole passage of text comes off as an unwieldy stream of consciousness. I was reminded of an excellent article by Stephen Poole that gave some backbone to my concern that gamers and pundits are getting a bit hasty to align certain games with classics in other media. I love games, all of us do round here (right?), but I'm very cautious these days to laud any game that isn't fun or doesn't make use of interactivity in some meaningful way to enhance what could otherwise be done better in another medium. Games don't have to be fun or meaningful but I think they have to be at least one or the other to be of any worth. I wouldn't say Passage or Every Day the Same Dream or Home or Today I Die are fun but their mechanics are meaningful. Some games manage to do both like Bioshock and Portal and Braid but they're rare.

Finkbug
Maine
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October 17, 2011 - 12:08 am
Member Since: August 9, 2010
Forum Posts: 468
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There's an epidemic of indie little games with inept to fatal faux-profundity slapped on top of what might otherwise be decent mechanics.

You played Braid/Shadow of Colossus. Got it. Write your "mysterious" "artful" "yearning" protagonist's story in your diary and move on, buddy.

 

While I'm ranting: Risk is a terrible boardgame. For of the love of sky chair dude in the sky please stop remaking it as your game project.

grooowrrrr! [menace menace] rrrrowwwr!

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Steerpike
Subtropical Southeastern Michigan
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October 17, 2011 - 9:18 am
Member Since: April 10, 2009
Forum Posts: 3309
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It's true you usually get one or the other and not both - good mechanics but no "arty-ness" or lots of arty-ness and no game. The Void is a classic example of the latter. Had there been a good, easy to control and understand game in The Void (in Pathologic, too), the experience would have been so much the stronger.

Game first, in this medium. Don't build art and try to shove a game into it. You're safer going the other way around or, under ideal circumstances, in a synergistic way, a la Flower.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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