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What game are you playing?
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geggis
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June 6, 2016 - 5:48 pm
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That was the last pizza we had from there too *sniff*. The EGX isn't at Earls Court anymore so we'd have to make a special trip for that pleasure again!

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Steerpike
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June 6, 2016 - 5:53 pm
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OH! Battleborn. Yes, I was disappointed in that.

1) It's not fun

2) It's not funny

We were hoping for a new Borderlands, which is to say something really silly we could play for a long time in campaign mode. As is, Battleborn scarcely has a campaign mode (we finished in about four hours) and its online versus levels are derivative and bleah. I'd rather play Payday, which has more uniqueness and challenge than Yet-Another-MOBA.

After all this work I'd have expected more from Gearbox, and I hope it's not the direction their games are going.

That pizza was freakishly delicious.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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geggis
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June 7, 2016 - 2:32 pm
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Battleborn could be another multiplayer melon on 2K's hands (Evolve being the other, unfortunately). I'm not sure why they decided to launch it at the same time as Overwatch either.

I'm surprised you went in expecting a new Borderlands though! I'm surprised they even shipped it with a campaign to be honest! Right from the off it struck me as competitive multiplayer focused, which I know you're not wild about. Nevertheless, from my experience with the beta and what I played of the campaign it was really silly, like Saturday morning cartoon silly, and... nyeah, not exactly fun, but then I didn't find Borderlands that much fun either so, yeah. I found the bootcamp trailer for Battleborn hilarious though I've got to say.

Now the competitive multiplayer gave things a lot more backbone and bite for me. Yeah, it's derivative but no more than Overwatch, probably less so given that there aren't many (if any?) first-person MOBAs that I'm aware of.

I really like the ability to tune your character with that helix leveling system but in practice it meant standing there like a pillock. I also appreciate the higher time to kill which makes combat feel more about skill than who got the jump on who. This is something I loved about HAWKEN and of course oldschool shooters like UT. Even Splatoon has a low TTK.

The big issue I had with Battleborn was that it was absolutely piss poor at explaining the mechanics of each mode. Like, did Gearbox even try? This is a huge problem as it results in a lot of angry players. Newcomers get rekt and get pissed because they -- understandably -- don't know what they're doing. This means they're more likely to get moaned at by experienced players which makes games really unpleasant. Experienced players get pissed because their teammates don't know what they're doing. All this until it clicks into place. Bleurgh. It's just an all round shit show. The game's very 'noisy' too, in that there's so much to take in and lots of on-screen clutter. It's overwhelming. This is stuff I presume Overwatch is waaay better at. It has to be!

Oh and while I'm ranting: developers, stop putting tips on loading screens. I have an SSD, I can't read them in time. At least give me a Click or Press X to Continue.

AJLange
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June 7, 2016 - 6:30 pm
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@xtal - yeah, I love the characters in Overwatch, but I don't care about the lore much.

It's totally badass that these quirky multicultural characters are duking it out on these colorful maps. I do not really care WHY. I like their barks and voice writing and stuff but the minute someone accidentally throws too much backstory at me I kinda tune it out.

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xtal
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June 7, 2016 - 11:37 pm
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I'm with you. Like I said, I find Blizzard to be particularly bad in the writing department, but they always have been. Since the first Warcraft. So I've never been let down in that department either, I just don't care because the games are usually fun. (Except Starcraft, Starcraft can suck an egg.)

And no, I suppose you can't play it on Steam. I forgot about Battle.net, since you don't really interface with it on the consoles. I use the word Steam interchangeably with "PC" lately.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Synonamess Botch
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June 8, 2016 - 5:49 pm
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I don't have anything to contribute to the online shooter discussion, since it's not really my thing.  I just found out that Persona 5 is coming out...Feb 17th.  I guess I'm not surprised, but giving an exact data that is 8 months away?!  I suppose it has something to do with localization, which probably takes forever.  And to think I rushed (well not exactly rushed but work with me) through P4 to ready myself.

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Steerpike
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June 8, 2016 - 6:29 pm
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@Gregg -- we knew it wasn't going to be like Borderlands, but we sort of hoped it would in spite of that. Early on they'd said there'd be a co-op campaign so we sort of believed what we wanted to believe, despite knowing better. Battleborn is okay if MOBAs are a favorite -- honestly, I don't know enough about the genre to judge it on that context -- but in terms of the humor and reliability of Borderlands 2, my group of four found it hugely disappointing. Well, forgettable more than disappointing. It was harmless but pointless.

The Division, that we liked. If only there'd been more of it, and if only they hadn't released that disastrous patch about three weeks after launch. I've never seen a patch so thoroughly break a formerly working game. Most of it's fixed now but they did a lot of damage to themselves. My crew is taking a short break from our Wednesday gaming while Eric moves to Oregon; personally I'm hoping we go back to The Division once he's settled in. We finished the campaign and explored lots of Dark Zone, but there's tons of promise to the game if Massive and Ubi stick with it and release constant updates.

@Botch -- I only ever played Persona 3 but I loved it. This is a series I'd gladly get into, for fear that I won't do it justice due to lack of "time." I live vicariously through you!

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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June 8, 2016 - 6:42 pm
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Frankly I don't think P4 is worth the effort unless you just can't get enough Persona.  I could say more but it would just be a repeat of points I've already made here.  I'm not even sure what compelled me to get through it - I was definitely in an odd mood gaming-wise.  Most likely it's that at the time I just needed a game that didn't require much in terms of manual dexterity.

So now I'm mostly interested to see how they follow it up.  They have the talent for sure.  All the right people are there in the key roles.  So the Japanese release date is September 15, which makes that mid-February US date not seem so odd now.

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Meho
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June 9, 2016 - 8:47 am
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So, huh, anyone plays new Doom? I completed the campaign last Friday and was SHOCKED at how excellent that game turned out to be. Frankly, I expected a mangy down and dirty arena shooter made by a skeleton crew of remaining anonymous id employees after most of the A-team left and after the Call of Duty-inspired reboot of Doom was scrapped a couple of years ago but what we got is actually one of the smartest and most elegantly designed single player FPS games in a surprisingly long time.

 

I mean, it does have multiplayer and I played it in the closed beta too (turned out I had keys for both PC and PS4 betas) and my opinion back then was that it is decent if not revolutionary in any way but most of the internet seems to haven't liked it that much, so I thought, OK, perhaps the single player will be scrappy, grindhouse kind of experience that looks to Shadow Warrior reboot for inspiration. But, no, Doom 2016 is so good, so assured in what it does that I am simply not sure why in the fuck of all fucks did id not put Marty Stratton in a game director's seat earlier? Like, a decade earlier, you know? I mean, I liked Doom 3 and somewhat enjoyed Rage back in the day but compared to this bad boy, Doom 3 is a game for little kids who are afraid of the dark and can be entertained with a near-infinite string of jump-scares and Rage is this sweaty, sad hulk of a game trying to hit the jackpot but missing every time until it collapses wearily under its own weight.

 

Like, Doom 2016 is lean, mean and so fast it's unbelievable. People used to cheer Titanfall's speed and graciousness of movement but Doom is just ridiculously better at it combining excellent movement control with smart level design and some really good combat mechanics. When the simple act of moving through space is so pleasurable in a FPS game, you know you're in for a treat.

 

But also... this is the first Doom game that actually makes a connection with Doom's RPG roots. I mean, aside from the Doom RPG, of course. I was kind of worried that having to pursue unlocks and manage the character's build might detract from the purity of shooting and that simple mechanic of finding better weapons as you go is all this game might ever need but, actually, no, they did it very well. A lot of thought and, I guess, QA testing went into this component of the game so that it really fits so organically with the core gameplay loop of moving, observation and killing that after a while I felt positively inspired with how the player's skills feed into passive bonuses and buffs and how you can meaningfully evolve your build to suit your preferred play style.

 

Then the weapons - my god, they are glorious. I mean, I wasn't even aware how the classical Doom/ Quake combination (pistol-assault rifle-shotgun-railgun) opens so many alleys for creative play. I guess one of the reasons that I play fewer FPS games these days is - aside from many of them being multiplayer focused and me being old and slow - that their weapons, even when they are supposed to be creative and crazy, are just not that interesting as they do not mix in inspired ways with level design, enemy design and movement. So, like, Titanfall, again, I just felt like all the weapons were variations on the same hitscan philosophy (even though I am aware that I am being unfair and that there was some variation there) whereas in Doom weapons are not designed to be interchangeable and useful for every situation, you are supposed to learn them and use them when appropriate.

 

Also, this ties in with how combat is RELENTLESS but demands you to read it. I played Ratchet & Clank remake immediately before Doom and I loved just the sheer destructive fun of it, but that game is mostly about using big, exaggerated scattershot weapons for crowd control and is not designed for precision and focus. Doom is almost the polar opposite while staying in the sheer destructive fun ballpark, it's about identifying the enemies through their silhouettes, prioritising between them, keeping track of them even as you move at breakneck speed to avoid all the missiles fired your way and killing them in the order that will ensure you end the encounter with more health/ ammo gained than spent while also taking into consideration that they teleport reinforcements in at all times and having to improvise. And all this happens in ridiculously small timeframes, it's the purest of twitch experiences while demanding you think in deeply tactical ways. Like, you actually have to switch between weapons on the fly, not because you've run out of ammo, but because the situation on the battlefield just changed and your previously made estimation of time and movement routes necessary to survive is no longer accurate. I feel like one of the most interesting design decisions here is the possibility to extract health from enemies by melee killing them under certain circumstances - this really makes the player think in terms of managing the resources and estimating the risk/reward ratio rather than just enjoying the mindless slaughter this game admittedly resembles. When you are in the zone in Doom combat, you actually feel like you are solving difficult equations in the most elegant/ shortest ways rather than like you're fighting a mere demon horde from hell. Many people have mentioned they feel a semblance of Platinum/ Capcom character action games here and I will confirm that the comparison is actually good. It may be gory and reveling in splatter visuals, but in terms of how you play it, it's very much about grace and elegance.

 

Level design is also surprisingly interesting, perhaps not hitting the high water marks of the classical Romero era but still being quite far from the modern corridor shooter philosophy. First, it's quite vertical, and second, it's really good about distributing secret areas through maps and incentivising you to look for them.

 

It's just a really good video game that goes out of its way to engage the player through interaction, give her meaningful forms of expression and rewards for creativity and curiosity while staying respectfully away from cinematic pretenses. It's also very good at being fair, for instance, there isn't one jump scare/ monster closet in the game (that I am aware of) - it respects the player so much that it doesn't need to build tension in ways that have been new in Doom 1993 but are significantly cheapened in the post-Doom 3 era. And the difficulty is just so well balanced. It's a challenging game but it never feels unfair, you always understand that you're dying because you are not focused enough and that all the tools you need to prevail are there, you just need to use them. Like, it's a really daft thing to say, but it feels like Dark Souls had an influence on the Doom's general philosophy there and that DSIII and Doom came out within a few weeks of each other and ended up being so good is really a kind of a blessing I was simply not ready for this year.

 

I hope they do a sequel goddamit.

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Steerpike
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June 9, 2016 - 10:51 am
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I'm playing it! And I've seen AJ playing too!

My response is similar to yours. It's visceral and violent and very straight-up, balls-to-the-wall shooter. There's some horror (as there always was in Doom) and plenty of guts, but mostly it's a game about moving and fighting and repeating.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Meho
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June 10, 2016 - 7:15 am
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There is a whole essay worth of thinking there in trying to analyse why Doom is such an enduring prospect and in figuring out how John Carmack's pursuit of immersion in game environments has lead to Doom 3 being a comparatively slow game with heavy emphasis on atmosphere and obscuring the said environment to allow for the imagination to fill the blanks, where the new Doom (admittedly Carmackless) manages to attain immersion through deliberately exaggerated physicality of movement and combat. They go into totally different directions and I'd really love to see which one is more immersive for the majority of players.

 

I used to love Doom 3 back in the day - recognising it's not "proper" Doom but still being scary and engaging - so I actually reinstalled it while playing Doom 2016 to reexperience its slower pace and atmosphere. It does kind of look like a kneejerk reaction by id to cinematic trend that was looming on the horizon back then and while I still appreciate what it did and like some of its elements, I have to say it pales in comparison with the new game.

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xtal
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June 10, 2016 - 10:56 am
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I've heard nothing but praise for Doom's single player campaign. I watched someone play it for about 15 minutes and it looked brilliant. It's next on my list once I'm through Uncharted 4, which I've been playing pretty slowly and savoring.

There's been a stupid amount of good games already this year. And based on the slew of games delayed into "Q1 2017" next year's spring will probably be similar. It seems like games don't come out in the holiday sweet spot of November anymore unless they're called Halo or Call of Duty.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Steerpike
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June 10, 2016 - 11:27 am
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I agree with you, Meho. Doom 3 wasn't a bad game and it got a bad rap somewhat unfairly. Released about a month before Half-Life 2, I guess some unflattering comparisons were to be expected. But you kind of hit the nail on the head there with your remarks about its pacing. In the end I think this is why people don't remember Doom 3 fondly; it did not feel like a Doom-ish game.

When the Steam version was on sale I bought it -- this was maybe a year ago -- and I fired it up again, but the slow pace of the game made me feel like I was moving through concrete. Just the speed (the very realistic speed) at which you fire your pistol... it was a thinking man's Doom. And for all its faults, in a lot of ways it actually crystallized all the best parts of the Doom "idea." It was terrifying and brutal, it certainly delivered on its technical promises. If you never tried the Resurrection of Evil expansion pack, do so now; it's even better than the core game.

But I doubt I could bring myself to actually play Doom 3 again, at least not for very long. This from a person who still finds time to play Project IGI once a year or so. Doom 3 was a measured game, and the very pacing that made it such a good horror experience was also its undoing.

Doom 2016, by contrast, is quite unfettered by issues of cadence.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

AJLange
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June 10, 2016 - 11:38 am
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Yes, I am playing Doom off and on, though Overwatch ate my time in that department as soon as it launched. 🙂

I am headed out to the Origins game con this week, so I won't have much video gaming time.

I hope to slip some in when I get back at least and maybe wrap Doom up. I agree with everything said about it so far - it's a lot of classic fun and it was kind of a surprise they hit the notes so well.

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geggis
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June 11, 2016 - 7:17 am
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@Steerpike: Oh man, The Division. I only played the beta for a few hours but I found it as dull as dishwater. I mean, it looked lovely, but I don't remember anything specific about it other than lots of running around shooting bulletproof hoodies and staring at a map that looked like somebody had sneezed markers all over it. I also belly laughed at a knee pad increasing my weapon's DPS by a few percent. The Dark Zone stuff looked kind of fun and the cover system was pretty slick I've got to say, but other than that it all felt so familiar, well trodden and safe, and I've hardly played any modern third-person shooters-- and certainly nothing by Ubi! With friends I can see it being a lot more entertaining.

The Division was worth it just for this though: https://youtu.be/BSSkz6iDPvM

@Meho: I miss your walls of text! 😉

I hear nothing but praise about Doom, and as much as I'd like to play it, I've still got to play The New Order which I own but haven't got round to yet. Doom is definitely something I'll be picking up at some point and it strikes me as the sort of game you should be playing on a harder difficulty to really dig into the guts of the thing. That said, I watched a friend play it on his PS4 and while it looked super slick, it wasn't that that really sold me on it. I've actually been more intrigued by folks like you Meho commenting on the flow of combat and that rhythm of collecting health from melee attacks and ammo from shooting. That's a pretty neat sounding system.

On a side not, and I'm not aiming this at you Meho, but I'm kind of amused how often Dark Souls gets raised whenever someone says something along the lines of 'it never feels unfair'. It's almost as if, before Dark Souls, all difficult games were notoriously unfair. No doubt some were, but I can't think of any worth giving a damn about. I find it a weird thing to pin on the Souls games though. And besides, did everyone forget about the Capra Demon, or the Flame Lurker, or the Armor Spider, or Lordran knows what other bosses I never got to play against and get repeatedly thwomped by because I didn't know how to survive within a few seconds of entering the boss chamber?

Also, did anyone hear about the 'Global Restart Day' for Dark Souls? That's a really cool idea and something I hope catches on for struggling games that deserve another shot. Might be a good time for me to get back on it but... we'll see.

Speaking of which, Evolve is due a massive overhaul soon in light of all the feedback since release. I think TRS/2K will be pushing it in a big way in a last ditch attempt to bring some numbers back and hold on to them. I hope it works but I'm also kind of worried that the game I loved so much last year won't exist in a few months.

Back to Doom though: I fairly recently played the original Doom with pistol starts rather than carrying all my gear from one level to the next. That very much ties into what you were saying about 'all the tools you need to prevail are there' because it's clear that each level was designed to stand alone. Very impressive and a really interesting way of playing.

Your hitscan comment is a good point too because that's something that I also love about Splatoon revolving around ink: everything shoots a physical projectile that can be dodged, theoretically.

I'm still playing Offworld Trading Company and Anachronox, and enjoying the hell out of both of them still. Offworld's campaign is amazing. Age of Wonders 3 has been getting a bit of my time too. It's like a cross between Civ, Total War and Chaos Reborn, which is awesome.

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Meho
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June 13, 2016 - 8:57 am
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In the meantime, I managed to complete Uncharted 4 last weekend and am very pleased with the game. It does have most of the drawbacks that the previous games had, but it also has all of their strong points but this time cranked to eleven. I love the story because it manages to stay this feel good, swashbuckling, whitebread fantasy based on many pop-cultural stereotypes and yet to still question the medium and discuss the need for some maturity in one's life. Troy Baker continues to impress with his versatility in voice acting and the written dialogue is just very good, albeit one is not to expect Marcel Proust from this story, of course.

 

More importantly, the gameplay is very finely honed, especially in the pacing department. I am one of those people who pretty much think that climbing in Uncharted games is a necessary evil because you can't have shooting all the time but in this game it was either better realised or it was just better paced. There is actually much less shooting than I was expecting with long (hours long) stretches of gameplay dedicated to climbing and puzzle solving that I didn't hate but actually actively enjoyed. Yes, I think it helped that some of the climbing sections benefited enormously from the tech that allows for some truly stunning vistas, but generally, Naughty Dog just displayed a new level of assuredness (is that even a word?) in game design. Like, for the most part, the game has no UI on screen - it is just assumed that the design of maps and diegetic information you get are sufficient to get you through the game. And yet, should you get stuck, the game offers non-diegetic assistance that, yes, is intrusive, but mostly because you realise how well it communicates the needed information most of the time and you feel a little like a traitor for asking advice.

 

Puzzles are actually well measured, I didn't get stuck once and I did get the chance to observe, analyse and solve the problems which, for me is not a very frequent occurence, especially in games I normally deem to be of the "action" persuasion. Of course, it does help that all the puzzles are self contained - there are no adventure-game-style shenanigans with inventory or multiple-room ones. It's usually just you and a problem that can be solved by just looking at things n front of you and thinking about them. And a little experimentation.

 

And then, when you solve a puzzle, you feel good but also you know the game is just going to send you off to another assignment as Uncharted 4 really does it well: it's like a very organically put together procession of exotic locales (and Scotland) that certainly betray the modern gaming's need to have diverse biomes in a campaign as not to bore the player but also serve as meta-reference to all the adventure cinema and prose Uncharted is based on.

 

Then, when the shooting starts, it's the best Uncharted ever. There are some very well designed arenas that allow for some light stealth and the combination of melee, shooting, sneaking and grapple-hook spidermaning around is never perfect but is better than what Uncharted games offered in the past. Naughty Dog seem to have consciously focused on breaking the expected models of combat and while they never exactly reinvent anything, every encounter does seem like it was thought through thoroughly (!!!) and designed to keep you on your toes.

 

It has a fully developed driving mechanic that very much fits with the general idea of good pacing of the game, so between climbing, puzzle solving, driving, sneaking and shooting and all the excellent banter and situational unique animation the game keeps throwing at us (and that must have cost a FORTUNE), it really is this grand, good-hearted but still kind of scary adventure that I imagined I will one day play as I was a kid reading pirate comics and watching all those Hollywood flicks with Burt Lancaster and his ilk...

 

Also, it is incredibly beautiful. Again, it must have cost a fortune to have all those people do all those actions on the sound stage and then have all that painstakingly rendered in-game, and, yes, it is a 30 FPS game, but, god damn it, it is gorgeous. Sure, in ten years from now we'll all be "wow, and we though those were good graphics" but my wife actually said something along the lines of "Well, I don't see how it can get better than this, I mean this grass: this is how the fucking grass looks in real life".

 

I uninstalled it before even sampling multiplayer as Uncharted multiplayer historically puts me to sleep (decent, just not exciting: seems to combine all the bad sides of Call of Duty - endless unlocks, hitscan weapons that kill you as soon as you're seen - without its good sides such as high speed of movement ) but if you are into good quality, hand crafted, linear single player stuff, you really can't do much better than Uncharted 4.

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Meho
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June 15, 2016 - 8:27 am
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Oh, by the way, does anyone play Earth Defense Force 4.1: The Shadow of New Despair? It's mad fun in coop but I seem to be only playing with people extravagantly above my own level so, while it's fun, I tend to be more of a hindrance than help (look at this match where everyone has armour at least ten times stronger than mine) so I thought, perhaps playing it with friends would be somewhat less embarrassing for me. I mean, I understand that it might be difficult to organise transatlantic gaming sessions seeing how we're all quite old and busy but perhaps some of the European tap cohorts might be interested?

 

It's a dumb old game, yes, but GLORIOUSLY so.

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xtal
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Meho, your thoughts on Uncharted are pretty similar to how I've been feeling. Naughty Dog are just great at what they do. I've enjoyed the characters as usual, some of the vistas are ridiculously gorgeous, and the puzzles are generally easily solvable but enjoyable too.

I'm not quite done yet (at Chapter 15 I believe) but I think I like this Uncharted the best; and I liked Drake's Deception a lot. I hope they go on to do something else original, as we saw what they gave us with The Last of Us. Though I fear the obligatory sequel for that game is coming since it was so successful.

What have you all thought about some of the latest game reveals at E3 this week?

The gameplay demo during Sony's conference for the new God of War looked interesting; like a bit of Souls has seeped in (more of Souls World Takeover, yay!) as it seemed a bit slower than the games before it. I've never liked the God of War series but I'm at least curious about this new one. I'm cautiously optimistic about Horizon: Zero Dawn, though honestly it looks a bit like every other game right now (Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, Mordor, Batman, Mad Max, what have you..). Sony Bend's new game, Days Gone, also looks interesting; the three of those games I've mentioned all have a similar very outdoors-y woods-y look to the demos that I saw. Gorgeous outdoor spaces seem to really be in right now. I know half of the world is like groan, moar zombies? but I don't feel that way. Zombies are just a tool; tools can be used well or used like shit.

SPEAKING OF ZOMBIES: STATE OF MOTHERFUCKING DECAY 2 YES PLEASE! I was ecstatic to learn this game is not an MMO as was rumored, but a single player game with optional drop-in 4 player co-op. This is the game I'm excited for more than anything. It's certainly what I'll be getting one of those sleek new $299 Xbones for.

And even though it had a very boring "dev diary" tease, I'm second most excited for Mass Effect: Andromeda. You may know me as one of the six people on the internet who thinks Mass Effect 3 is a masterpiece. Because I'm not a mad baby. Take that, internet babies!

Other games which have my interest: South Park: The Fractured But Whole looks brilliant; Dishonored 2 should be excellent if it has an Assassin's Creed 2-like sequel improvement; We Happy Few looks like a really cool game that is, graphically, clearly inspired by Bioshock Infinite; and of course Quantic Dream's new game has the potential to kick us all in the groin and make us feel lousy and shit in a good way!

What are the rest of you looking forward to? The Legend of Zelda: We Made Another One!? Final Fantasy XV: We'd Have to Try Real Hard to Make Steerpike More Bored With This One Than He Was With XIII!? Do tell!

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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geggis
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June 15, 2016 - 6:04 pm
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I've only watched three E3 trailers/videos: the new Zelda, The Last Guardian and Steep, which looks rad. I've got plenty of games to tide me over though until all these newly announced titles get released. I'm rarely in a rush to devour E3 coverage to be honest!

Edit: Oh and, damn, I still haven't played State of Decay yet!

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xtal
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June 27, 2016 - 12:21 pm
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I already forgot about Steep. That was a very strange ending to Ubisoft's conference. It could be good of course.

I know I poked fun at new Zelda, but it actually looks like the most interesting game in the series next to Wind Waker; and long time fans seem to be saying it is reminiscent of the original, which according to them is good. And watching gameplay videos I have to agree. It seems as though the Zelda development team has looked outward for inspiration for the first time in a long time.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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