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The Last Guardian
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Toger
Somewhere, out there...
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December 15, 2014 - 6:02 pm
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I think I've gone through all seven stages of grief and finally reached: I no longer care.

sigh

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Synonamess Botch
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December 16, 2014 - 12:38 pm
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Xtal, you're that guy who likes to fry ants under a magnifying glass.  Admit it.  As for confirmations of not being cancelled, sheesh can the statements from these people quoted in the article be any more flaccid?  At this point it's just embarrassing.  But I guess you can't blame Ueda too much - he has to answer questions, and people keep asking...

Someone with a little more creativity needs to interview him and open with: "Now that The Last Guardian is dead, what's up next?"

Rule #2: Double-tap

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xtal
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December 18, 2014 - 1:14 pm
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I've always believed in The Last Guardian. Here's why.

To me it seems very different from other vaporware because it's not like other vaporware. Now that I even say that word there are only 3 games (not including TLG) that I can remember in my lifetime that quality for that moniker: Duke Nukem Forever, Team Fortress 2, and Half-Life 3.

Duke Nukem Forever qualified because, post-Duke 3D, once we had the experiences of Half-Life, Unreal, System Shock 2 and Deus Ex we collectively realized that Duke Nukem was shit and there was no place for it. But development trudged on and look what happened.

Team Fortress 2 qualified because it genuinely seemed like that game would fail because of the numerous shifts in style and tone it had (remember early builds of that game - it was a super serious war shooter because we were still high off Saving Private Ryan and the rise of Tom Clancy games). As more time passed Valve wisely realized the direction they needed to go - to amp up even more what they had in Team Fortress Classic - and so inside The Orange Box we finally got what we still have today, seven years later, in TF2.

Half-Life 3 qualifies simply because it makes no sense for Valve to make this game. I don't see why it would ever happen. The legend is too much. Half-Life is synonymous with revolutionizing a genre. Half-Life 3 would need to do nothing less or it would be a failure. It can't be just a "good game." It needs to be what the first two games were, and I don't know if that's possible.

 

The Last Guardian isn't like any of those. We haven't realized in hindsight that Ico and SOTC are rubbish. No external factors have changed drastically that requires the style or tone of the game to change. And lastly, the game doesn't have to live up to any legend. Its predecessors didn't change anything in games. Ico has maybe had a tiny influence in some smaller games, but certainly not much; nor has Shadow of the Colossus had any wide influence, other than no doubt influencing individuals in the industry. But neither changed games. There's still no game like SOTC. They're simply revered and beloved games.

I think it's stayed alive because enough people at Sony recognize that. As long as that team has an idea I think there will be people willing to support and fund them. At least until they misstep.

Imagine for a second 3D Realms (or whoever) take to Kickstarter and ask for money for another Duke Nukem. Now imagine Team ICO/Fumito Ueda take to Kickstarter and make their pitch. One of those gets laughed at and one of them gets Phillip J Fry'd.

 

One day this game is going to show up and then none of this will have ever mattered. Maybe it won't be great, maybe it won't even be good, but the wait will almost definitely be over eventually.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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geggis
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December 20, 2014 - 8:15 am
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Jakkar said
Red Faction: Guerilla stands, I think, as the only non-body use of advanced physics systems we've seen on the 'current' generation/last generation.

 - Jakk

Spintires! http://store.steampowered.com/.....pp/263280/

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Synonamess Botch
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June 16, 2015 - 12:25 am
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Rule #2: Double-tap

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Pokey
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June 17, 2015 - 10:53 am
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I may have a reason to buy a PS4.

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Toger
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June 17, 2015 - 12:02 pm
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They're not suckering me into it again. sigh

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geggis
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June 21, 2015 - 12:50 pm
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That's pretty much how I feel too Toger. My PS3 was ready and waiting (and dusty), but now it's on PS4. I'll be honest though, something tells me it isn't going to be as good as Ico or Shadow of the Colossus, and its got stiff competition from the likes of Brothers and (to many around here) Journey.

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Steerpike
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June 22, 2015 - 10:45 am
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After all these years it's definitely hard to see The Last Guardian as a reason to buy a PS4. I'm sure the game will be great, and I hope it knocks our socks off, but the longer you have to wait for something, the more weariness sets in. 

I bought the PS3 when exclusives I wanted to play reached a critical mass -- Uncharted, Demon's Souls, and Valkyria Chronicles. In the end I wound up preferring that console over the 360 for a lot of reasons, including other games. I just got a PS4, largely for The Last of Us Remastered and Bloodborne, but with some other exclusives coming along I think it'll pay for itself pretty quickly. I'm glad TLG is still in production, but anything on the burner for this long raises eyebrows.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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June 22, 2015 - 2:47 pm
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Good points Steerpike.  My path with PS3 closely mirrors yours and I've gotten some great mileage from it.  My PS4 purchase was a big departure from the norm.  I'm still not convinced it will be worth it, especially when PC gaming has made such progress.

Yeah, TLG as a system-seller doesn't even pass the laugh test.  That wasn't even the case with PS3, generally speaking.  The world has moved on as it were and I think it's best to temper expectations on what it will provide.

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Steerpike
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June 22, 2015 - 3:01 pm
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I'm inclined to agree with you, Botch. This generation of consoles didn't really need to happen at all, in my view. 360 and PS3 were still holding together nicely, and while they're definitely "outdated" systems from a state-of-the-art perspective, neither feels particularly old. With the PC raging back as the entertainment platform, and the increasing desirability of living room PCs, I could have foregone the new consoles entirely. But Bloodborne.

Some analysts are saying this might be the last generation of consoles. Nintendo is working on new hardware, but will there be a PS5? In 2018 or whatever the idea of a console might make no sense at all.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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June 22, 2015 - 6:57 pm
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I read a comment from someone recently, forgot who it was in all the E3 rush.  He claimed that the extended age of the PS3/360 gen made it possible for PC to come in and have its resurgence.  It does seem at least superficially plausible, but I'm not sure I buy it completely.  For one, there's no overestimating the influence of Steam.

Still, I didn't see how PS4/X180 (Zing!) could succeed.  However, despite those initial blunders by Microsoft, sales seem to be moving right along.  I guess its becoming much like the smartphone model - everybody jumps on board when the new, shiny ones come out.  But the big differentiating factor - HD - wasn't there this time around.  Ultimately, I really don't understand the console market.  Seems like it could tank tomorrow.  But I don't think PC gaming will ever go away.

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Steerpike
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June 24, 2015 - 12:05 pm
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Understanding the console market is at least two parts oracular guesswork. Casual trend analysis has proven pretty useful - historically, the mistakes made by one of the big console companies in one generation will be repeated by a different one in the following generation, for example. 

As we all know, convergence is the watchword for consoles. Very few entertainment platforms are dedicated to one function any more. PS4 and Xbone are more like walled-garden PCs than ever, but really nothing is quite as PC as the PC. And now anyone with a little bit of curiosity and a thousand dollars can put together a home entertainment PC that does a lot more than the consoles do, leaving the consoles to depend on exclusive releases as their value proposition.

Speculatively, I'd say that nothing's going to die, but that things are going to change, and the change will be driven by practical issues. There's still no ideal keyboard/mouse replacement for those sitting on a sofa, and PCs set up in a traditional office chair arrangement don't lend themselves to controllers. VR and AR might throw everything for a loop, particularly if wearables change the need to point all your furniture at a single appliance.

Personally I'm hoping the Steam Link does what it purports to do, because that would save me a lot of money. Personally I'm spending more time with Bloodborne than with Witcher 3, because I want to sit on the couch when I get home.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

AJLange
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June 24, 2015 - 4:53 pm
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I wasn't very blown away by the footage of The Last Guardian. It didn't look too much different from the early footage shown years ago. Sorry to be skeptical but I feel like I could just play Ico again for this experience.

Something will probably sell me a PS4 eventually, but not for another couple years or so? Kingdom Hearts 3 and FF7 Remake are no where near release-worthy looking.

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xtal
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July 17, 2015 - 3:42 am
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Consoles could be a thing in 5-7 years, or they could be not a thing. 

The whole case and argument misses the grand point, which some just don't know consciously, and some are too caught up in "wars" of consoles to admit: it's not about a computer-like box in the living room; it's not about squares or blades or XMBs. It's about holding a controller in your hand and sitting on the couch. I don't give a shit if there's a physical box under my tv, or what company makes it, or if there isn't one and future smart tvs have a PlayStation store or Xbox store apps built into them. Every click-baiting sexy headline about the end of consoles misses or ignores the point that physical boxes can go away. No serious enthusiasts or casual enjoyers care. The lifestyle of controller+couch+TV will not go away. Not in my lifetime. I guarantee it. The video game controller is too perfect. 

It can't do everything, but it does enough. Motion, 3D, VR, etc., the gimmicks will come and go, but controllers will stay. And consoles will always be about that controller in your hand. Whether "console" means the NintenSung BoxStation in a computer box under your tv, or if it's an app built into it, the fundamental idea won't change soon. 

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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geggis
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July 20, 2015 - 10:02 am
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It always makes me laugh the way people fawn over the looks of a new console, or their pimped out PC with fugly LEDs and windows looking into the guts of their whizzing rig. I look at all these devices like I look at routers and modems: I want them to disappear. All I want is the display and the controller (whatever guise those things come in).

One of the things I greatly admired about Her was its treatment of technology in the future. It wasn't all Minority Report-style Power Gloves and holographic projections and gestures everywhere. Technology took a back seat; it melted into its surroundings and wasn't this consumer commodity any more. It just served us.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/ar.....-ui-design

http://www.fastcocreate.com/30.....ets-in-her

Interesting stuff!

For me, controller isn't synonymous with console. Consoles represent the most convenient way to game, at a more attractive price point than a capable PC, with all the restrictions that entails. I think there'll always be a market for that. One of those restrictions is that you have to use controllers for most games which -- as somebody who enjoys first and third person games that involve precise aiming and fluidity of movement, or the odd strategy game with a fair bit of GUI spelunking -- just irks me no end. Choice is a fine thing.

That said, I'm a fully converted motion controls zealot thanks to Splatoon. Metroid Prime: Corruption's motion controls were a flash of light but it wasn't really going to catch on (what with the strange Wii remotes -- say hi PS Move!). Now we've got Splatoon, and I'm hoping this time it does catch on (but I'm really not hopeful). At first, it didn't feel right, but now I find myself in other games moving the controller to look around and aim. It feels so natural and intuitive once you've grokked it. Thankfully, I'm not the only one who thinks thumbsticks suck balls for precision aiming -- Valve's Steam controller is due in October and it can only be a better alternative.

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Steerpike
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July 21, 2015 - 1:24 pm
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It varies game to game for me, divided along obvious loyalty lines with a few exceptions... I generally prefer a mouse and keyboard and standard office-ish PC, but more and more I've taken to dragging the PC out to the living room for certain games. This is a pain in the ass and I am lazy (I am also out of HDMI ports), but if the Steam Link does what it claims, all my problems will be solved.

There's much to be said for the sofa-and-controller philosophy. Sofas are soft and my cat can nap on me while I play. I get home from work and find I want to sit on a sofa with a controller, not on an office chair with a mouse. And third-person games do play more comfortably with a controller. For some reason I also played Borderlands 2 that way, despite my general preference for mousing in FPS. But it really can't be overstated that the MKB and controller aren't locked in some struggle for dominance. Neither is universally ideal, but as you say, each is very good (maybe not perfect, but really good) for what it does. Heck, I even re-invested in a HOTAS for Elite Dangerous, which adds a whole new layer of complexity. You can't HOT or AS from the couch, and you can't easily Witch from the HOTAS room. And people say first-world problems aren't serious.

I'm eager to try that Steam controller out. It certainly seems like a compromise with great potential. More than anything, Gregg, this conversation further demonstrates the need for more radial menus in the world.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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geggis
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July 23, 2015 - 7:56 am
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Neither is universally ideal

This.

And yes, more radial menus please! Dishonored and Infinite style! Metro 2033 Redux's radial menu was pretty crumby though in comparison.

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xtal
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August 21, 2015 - 2:11 pm
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I'm keeping the faith. The Last Guardian is going to be good, people! Or not. I don't know. Whatever! Yeesh. I just want to at least play it before I die.

But if it is good, remember that I said so! But if it's not good..just forget I said anything. K?

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Meho
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June 15, 2016 - 8:47 am
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xtal said
I'm keeping the faith.  

 

As well we all should. I mean, now we have a release date!!!!!!!

 

Yes, it was really the last possible chance for Sony to wow us but they did give us a new trailer and they did give us the release date: 25 October 2016.

 

I mean, I don't know... Back then when it was announced I'm not sure Tap even existed, I think it was still 4 fat chicks. That was a LONG time ago and now it's just a couple of months away. I really and truly have no idea if it can live to my bloated, totally out of control expectations but goddamnit I wish it does. I wish it's this fantastically emotional but at the same time elegant and restrained game that speaks through gestures and non-verbal noises and without relying too much on typical cartoonish drama. Shadow of the Colossus and Ico are still pure magic to me (hell, if they did PS4 remasters, I'd buy them yet again) and I believe we discussed this in 2008 or so - I'd hate to see The Last Guardian go down the more Hollywood route of providing too much context, exposition and characterisation, I really hope it stays restrained and lets us just imagine the wider world the game inhabits while allowing us to define the relationship between the human and inhuman protagonists through our actions rather than scripted events.

 

But I guess we'll know soon enough. I am advising against clicking on that video for the new trailer if you want to go into the game totally ignorant and not have a little bit of it spoiled, but for the rest of you, click away!!!!!

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