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Bloodborne
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Synonamess Botch
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June 29, 2014 - 6:03 pm
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I want to talk about Bloodborne.  I've made no secret of my disappointment with Dark Souls 2 and I think its inferiority is directly related to the absense of Hidetaki Miyazaki.  Now that he's back, I can't deny my enthusiasm for this game, despite it being a PS4 exclusive and the fact that I don't plan on getting a PS4.  That said, I won't even admit to hoping for a PC port since right now I'm mainly just curious to see what Miyazaki comes up with (as opposed to OMG must have naow!).

Sony has said they dropped the ball in declining to publish Dark Souls.  Looks as though they're putting their money where their mouth is by backing From with Japan Studio and Sony marketing muscle.

Let the speculation commence!

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Steerpike
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July 1, 2014 - 8:28 am
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It's impossible to say, of course, because so little is known, but if there's a god then Bloodborne will take all its cues from two games: Dark Souls, and - wait for it -

Pathologic.

The setting is  perfect, the hints at the storyline match, Miyazaki's style is exactly right, and the scope of his games would be ideal for that same Day One/Day Two/Etc structure. And whereas historically he has gone in for more action and less talking, I see no particular reason why one would have to be subsumed in favor of the other. The title I mention above has a fair amount of action, it's just badly implemented; one can imagine how it might have worked out with Dark Souls-like mechanics, a different protagonist(s), and a PS4-powered city setting.

Sony and Atlus have both admitted to dropping the ball in declining to publish Dark Souls, but I see that as the usual let's buy alien hominid Monday-morning quarterbacking or, in Sony's case, yeah-I-wish-I'd-invented-Harry-Potter since to my knowledge they never had an opportunity to publish it. So I also dropped the ball in declining to publish Dark Souls!

Seriously though, if I were a publisher rep and From Software came knocking at my door in 2009, I would think long and hard before giving them a regretful but firm "no." From has never been a reliable performer. Today I'd have a very different attitude, of course, particularly with Miyazaki at the helm. Bloodborne certainly looks tantalizing!

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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July 29, 2014 - 11:06 pm
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Huh, no Bloodborne love (or hate).  Only indifference.  The Miyazaki is not pleased.

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Synonamess Botch
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August 22, 2014 - 1:26 pm
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The Miyazaki chastises all of you harshly for your most shameful indifference.  spank

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geggis
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August 27, 2014 - 8:49 am
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Hahah, I saw the first gameplay video of it recently and was like 'Oh, it's another Souls game only without 'Souls' in the title'. I'm keen to see how he mixes this one up because, on the surface, it looked very similar. That said, I still haven't ventured back into the first DS...

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Steerpike
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August 27, 2014 - 11:56 am
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Venture back! Join us, and we will rule the galaxy as... well, not father and son, that would be weird. We'll just rule the galaxy.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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August 28, 2014 - 4:36 pm
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Your indifference has subsided slightly, but not to the satisfaction of the Miyazaki!  Continued floggings!  spank

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Synonamess Botch
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September 2, 2014 - 6:03 pm
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Hey SB, I hear Bloodborne is releasing in Japan in February, can you believe it?

Wow, wasn't expecting it so soon!  I wonder when the U.S. and Europe releases will be?

This is what you've reduced me to people: talking to myself on the forums.  So cold and lonely here.  Look, a snowman even-> snowman

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geggis
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September 3, 2014 - 10:52 am
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Aww, Botch, I'll listen to you talking to yourself.

I think with these games their art pipeline is what really impresses me in relation to the speed at which they're released. The mechanics are similar enough to understand how they could turn a game like this around fairly quickly, but when you look at it, and know just how much care and attention goes into all the environments, enemies, characters and gear (judging from previous games and of what I've seen of this), that's when you realise just how efficient they are. Their art assets are always stunning. Do you know how long Bloodborne has been in development? And what about DSII?

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Synonamess Botch
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September 3, 2014 - 12:32 pm
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Thanks Gregg, you're a peach.  I recently heard that development on Bloodborne started right after the Artorias of the Abyss DLC was released - October 2012.  That's only a little over two years unless I've got my dates wrong.  Seems they had to have leveraged some of the work on Dark Souls.

I don't know how long development on Dark Souls II took, but I do know the team was much larger than that of Dark Souls I.

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Synonamess Botch
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September 4, 2014 - 6:03 pm
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Watching all of the videos and analysis of this game has gotten to me.  I'm about one step from leaping on the hype train.  Must take a deep breath and calm down.  There's no way I would purchase a PS4 right now.  Even best case i would wait until after the game was released.  I'm still holding out for a PC port.

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Steerpike
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September 7, 2014 - 2:09 pm
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Miyazaki gave a funny response to an interview question around the time A of the A shipped. He said he didn't know if there'd be a Dark Souls 2, adding that he "didn't want to be scolded by his superiors" since even if there was a sequel he might not be in charge of it.

It seemed like a really odd thing to say. Who else would be in charge? Besides, just saying that a sequel was possible doesn't imply you'll be running it. What would make that such a sensitive issue that Miyazaki would worry about being "scolded" for it? 

At the time I took it to mean Miyazaki was leaving the company or FromSoft was about to go under. Instead he probably just wanted to be cagey about Bloodborne and not go into detail on From's operations, which were clearly in megaflux at the time. Transitioning to multiple simultaneous development, ramping up for new consoles, and in the process of being bought by the chainsaw hooker game people? No wonder he was hesitant to say.

I still can't work out the math on DkS2's development schedule since they insist it's not PhyreEngine powered, but that doesn't matter. What matters is BloodBorne looks sweet and I want it. Botch! we'll be PS4 Buddies!

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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September 8, 2014 - 5:08 pm
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Botch! we'll be PS4 Buddies!

Argh!  That's dirty pool right there!

Steerpike, I would be very interested to know more about the inner workings at From over the past two years.  Or maybe I just think I would.  At the very least I'd be interested to hear more of your conjecture.

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xtal
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September 9, 2014 - 10:49 am
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I have been absent and lazy, and so not too often checking in on this one-sided conversation you're having, Botch. Sorry 'bout that. Bloodborne is almost certainly going to be super rad, and having said that I have not followed any news or press about this game since that initial leak and announcement.

Since the Dark Souls II DLC came out and I've been playing that whilst no longer caring about things I miss and looking at the Wikis I've really enjoyed it. It has felt like playing through Demon's again, for which I rarely used the Wiki on my first go 'round. It's occurred to me that this state of mind will probably make Bloodborne that much more enjoyable, so I'm just going to steer clear of whatever inevitable Wikis pop up for that as well, and also from the community of YouTubers. In the past year I've become very anti-Souls community. I really hate most people who play Dark Souls, etc. This goes in line with my general dislike of sucky people, which online games tend to be full of.

I want to be the guy who discovers the Scraping Spear of Bloodborne on his own and fucks with other people and has no "community" presence either. I got way too involved in the Dark Souls community and I eventually realized that is not at all what I want. There were some good times, and a few good people, but generally I want to play these games the way they're designed. There's no voice chat, direct messaging, etc. by design for a reason. I like to think that Miyazaki would be a ruthless troll hunting people in Darkroot. And so I take my lead from what the game tells me.

 

For all the ways I loved and appreciated, for example, ENB's lore analysis and such of the first game, his walkthrough of DKS 2 was absolutely soulless, due in large part to his work on the strategy guide. It was no longer about discovery for him; it was about showing all the people on YT how many secrets and cool things he knew. And that's an analogy in general of the Souls community. "Look what I know." No thanks. Eat my Scraping Spear.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Steerpike
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September 9, 2014 - 5:44 pm
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I like to think that Miyazaki would be a ruthless troll hunting people in Darkroot.

If he is, they totally should make "Killed by Miyazaki himself" a trophy you get if he defeats you. Of all the times that man's told me I've died, I think I'd treasure that one the most.

To tell the truth, Botch, I know little about how From works, and I'm not really an expert on the Japanese development process (their workflows and pipelines are radically different than popular western models) either. Conjecture is all I can offer, based mostly on what I know of industry realities from elsewhere. But conjecture you shall have!

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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September 9, 2014 - 6:25 pm
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Ah yes, reading back over my comment, it makes it seem as though I assume you have some insider info about From Steerpike.  I actually meant it as more of a general statement - I'd just simply like to be privy to some fly-on-the-wall info.  That said, I did mean what I wrote about conjecture - can't have too much of it.

Xtal I'm going to jump on your bandwagon about this "community" business if you don't mind.  I'm not really interested in being part of a game's community either, even if like you I have enjoyed watching various YT'ers.  After Dark Souls II released, I found it hard watching the guys who had been close to its developerment.  Given what a negative reaction I had to the game, they suddenly just sounded like shills to me.

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Steerpike
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September 10, 2014 - 10:48 pm
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Communities have a habit of doing that. I've never really gotten into the DkS community, per se, but more and more I look at wiki use as almost an ARG/metagame. Like you guys I didn't do much DkS2 wiki reading, and it almost feels like I've been missing part of the experience. Even the spoilers and stuff contained in there, it's part of the whole picture to me. So I might wiki it up as I continue playing.

Back to Bloodborne: I wish I had more information on From's operations, because a lot could be learned from the way they do business. Company's been around since 1986, which is a long time even for Japan. In that country studios don't tend to collapse quite as readily, but then, most are sublabels of the large publishers. FromSoft has done some publishing, and it's a "big-ish" company - 230 according to Wikipedia. If it were western, and a client, I'd warn their management that they're right in the danger zone where mistakes can be catastrophic. Instead, either due to good leadership or differences in the Japanese model (or both), they seem quite stable and self-confident.

Miyazaki was recently named President of the company, which is hardly a surprise. One thing that interests me about FromSoft is the way I perceive them - as tight-lipped and private, a cards-to-the-chest sort of operation. Reality, though, doesn't bear that out. From seems happy to give interviews when asked, to let cameras into the office, etc. - it just avoids the "studio rockstar" attitude where the studio's brand becomes more important than the games.

The purchase doesn't really worry me. It was owned by Transcosmos before being bought by Kadokawa and I highly doubt anyone plans to mess with a working model. Another thing about Japanese development is that it tends to be conservative, changing slowly if at all, which actually bodes well for FromSoft even as it causes trouble elsewhere in Japan.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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September 19, 2014 - 10:24 am
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I wonder how much of a system-seller Bloodborne is.  I'm afraid I'm incapable of being fully objective on the matter.  It doesn't seem to be the type of title that is interested in attracting a new audience.  The key factor, of course, is the difference between those who want Souls and those who've already purchased a PS4.

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Steerpike
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September 23, 2014 - 9:48 am
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Neither of the big consoles really have a major system seller right now, and I don't think Bloodborne will change that model. People may well buy PS4s for Bloodborne, but they'll do so in the context of "Bloodborne plus X other exclusives." This is why I wound up buying a PS3, actually - Demon's Souls, Valkyria Chronicles, Uncharted, Heavy Rain, and - ahem - The Last Guardian were more than enough to tip the scale despite no one game driving me to the system.

From a business perspective, that's preferable. If your whole console hinges on, say, Halo, what happens when people get tired of Halo? Or at least want another game?

Bloodborne will be reason enough to get a PS4, if I haven't already by then. We'll have seen some hardware revs and likely a nice price drop. As good a time as any.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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xtal
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September 23, 2014 - 1:01 pm
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Bloodborne is getting way more press than any Souls games did, thanks in large part to the success of Dark Souls and cult classic status of Demon's Souls - but I agree that it won't sell systems on its own, but then again there's almost nothing that would do that these days. The Last of Us could sell PS3s, the Halo Master Chief Collection will probably sell Xbones and obviously people buy Nintendo consoles for re-re-re-re-re-re-remakes of the same 3 or 4 games, but not much beyond that will solely sell a system today. There's just no such thing as that anymore, and no one has to look at it like that because there is essentially a guarantee that 90% of all console games (excluding Nintendo stuff) will come out on both systems and in many cases PC too.

A smidgen of sarcasm seems to seep out when I talk about Metacritic but I will say again what I've suggested before: anything below 96 on Metacritic is worthless in terms of the old sales bump (please note: this is the Metacritic Scientist version of me talking, not Genuine Me; I obviously don't have an opinion that ridiculous because I'm delightful; Real, Delightful me signing off, Jerk Scientist me signing in). It is very close to impossible to achieve that 96 mark on Metacritic today, and because of that I don't believe either next/current/whatever-gen system will ever have a "system seller." I believe Mario and Zelda games can do it, but that's largely because Nintendo refuses, for the most part, to back down in the creativity department when working on new Mario games, and because Zelda fans have serious nostalgia and spending problems (flame on!!). If I were a betting person I would put all my money down on Master Chief Collection getting a solid Pat On The Back Of Mansauce Excellence Metacritic 95, but will fall just short of the Illusive Ooh-Ahh Hushed Reverent Tones Metacritic 96. Let's just hope for the sake of Halo fans that HMCC doesn't end up with the dreaded Oh, Thanks For All Your Efforts, Your Game Is As Good As Gears Of War 1 Metacritic 94, or the nightmarishly dreadful Ha Ha Ha Next Year Don't Even Bother Coming To The Company Picnic Metacritic 93.

BioShock was able to move Xbox 360s in 2007 with that delicious Metacritic 97 but 2007 was a more innocent time; long before annual Calls of Dewting and Blopping.

Humanity almost transcended its cynicism last year with The Last of Us but Havoc-Causing Citizen Tom Chick, in fine form, derailed the hopes of humanity's future by taking away TLoU's We Might As Well Have Won 5 Super Bowls In A Row Metacritic 96 and turning it into a Donovan McNabb Didn't Even Know Tie Games Were Possible, Aw Man What A Bummer Metacritic 95. To this day I'm amazed that Sony didn't have Chick assassinated. He cost them 5 million PS3s sold.

 

Where was I? Oh yeah, I don't think Bloodborne will sell PS4s, though I would like to congratulate it in advance on its You Might Get One Or Two People Who Hadn't Heard Of You To Buy You Metacritic 88.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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