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Dark Souls
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xtal
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May 7, 2012 - 12:57 am
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I got a lot done on this lazy Sunday. I utterly demolished the Bell Gargoyles thanks to the help of two summoned phantoms (not the NPCs). The Capra Demon was a bit tough but a good defense was enough to win against goat man. I then ventured into the Depths (I couldn't help myself), killed a crap ton of rats, dog-things, piles of sludge and some crazy disease-spewing giant eyeball things (I looked them up on the wiki - Basilisks, I think?) and it was all going quite well. I thought based on how easy the gargoyles were with summoned help, I should have a fair chance against this boss in the Depths. I summoned Lautrec and Solaire, ventured through the fog... and died.

I was concerned for two reasons: before I died Solaire was vanquished (you can heal, using Estus, white phantoms that are online players, but not these NPC guys, that sucks!) and I feared I had lost his help and whatever other opportunities he might present. Fortunately I made a trip to the dragon/Taurus bridge and he was still there. Phew.

Second, I was concerned that I'd lose my huge stock of humanity (I have 12 loose right now, which seems like a lot to me). So I decide I will run in through the fog, grab my souls and Homeward Bone out of there. So I walk through the fog, hold the damn circle button ("O") on my controller to run for the bloodstain, and what does it do? It activates my Homeward Bone. My fingers were nowhere near the square button! My controller has been doing weird stuff lately. Fortunately I have a newer, less broken one that I can charge and use if necessary. But sheesh, am I right?

So anyway, on my second try it worked, I got my souls and humanity back, and I hauled my butt out of the Depths. That disturbing ultra head crab dragon thing can wait. I obviously need to level up a bit more, but I'm not sure where to go. Nothing is very clear in this punishing world.

Oh, so after I beat the gargoyles some guy was in the bottom of the tower, and I bought some of his "Indictment" parchments on a whim. About 20 minutes later I was invaded by a red phantom, and I had something like 8 seconds to choose to report this person to the Book of the Guilty. If this person had perhaps bowed, and allowed me to return the gesture, I would have just thought well that was some decent fellow, they've invaded my world but at least were respectable; kudos. But no. I was dealing with some stabby thief-types in the lower Burg when this jerk all of a sudden blocked me into a corner so I couldn't move and just slashes the hell out of me with some poisoned weapon.

You're in the Book of the Guilty now, bitch. hell

Random thought: the guy who voices the pyromancy trainer is great. Wonderful delivery. Firelink is becoming kind of homey, with people in it now. People aside from that crestfallen "warrior."

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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geggis
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May 7, 2012 - 6:08 am
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Okay, I'm not sure I can read much of your post xtal because you're some way ahead of me now! I thought you took things slow? 😉

I started my session last night thinking of all those souls I'd left on the church roof with the Bell Gargoyles. I really didn't want to leave them there but at the same time I didn't want to go up on my own again to be toasted and leave even more souls. So I figured it was time to fight fire with fire, two versus one? How about two versus two? That'll even things out a bit. Once I'd reverse hollowed myself I made my way back to the church and had a look at some of the phantoms ready to be summoned. There was this one guy -- or girl -- "johnnyMCNuggets" or something, who looked like some sort of crimson grim reaper, garbed in red and wielding a giant scythe. I thought "I choose you". We went up to the roof and in under 20 seconds both gargoyles were dead. I got a few blows in mind but it wasn't me doing the damage, far from it. In truth it felt like a hollow victory (hollow! hyuk hyuk), not in the same way that I capitalised on the Flamelurker in Demon's Souls momentarily glitching out on some scenery, but hollow because I'd chosen somebody who looked terrifyingly badass and made the hitherto nigh-on impossible boss a cake-walk. So as penance I intend to leave a soapstone sign so that I can help somebody else defeat the gargoyles (and get my humanity back!). With me being quite low level (around 25 I think) it should be a much more interesting fight.

I made a trip back to the Burg and found the basement (totally forgot about that door). I fought one of those tall black knights and man, that was a tough fight, my stamina could barely hold out against its attacks. The defence ring beyond that black knight saved my hide against those assassin/rogue dudes down in the basement though. I didn't venture into the white mist because I wanted to explore the rest of that area, and I'm glad I did because I found a vendor and the aquaduct shortcut to Firelink.

I'm getting a Yurt The Silent Chief vibe from that guy I rescued from the parish church...

Also: Halberds rule. I took the plunge and sunk a lot of souls into dexterity to wield the thing and it's payed off.

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xtal
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May 7, 2012 - 8:29 am
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You shouldn't feel too hollow, Gregg. I googled the rules on summoning and someone wrote out some formula I didn't bother to follow, but what it worked out to was that you can summon people who are in the top 10% of your level. Example: If you are level 20 then you should be able to summon anyone else who is level 20 or 19. So this person should not have been some uber-mensch.

And on scary looking people: I have seen some really weird phantoms; like the hats they wear make me wonder if people have hacked this game (impossible, no? on a PS3?) or if FromSoft actually made a hat that is a treasure chest with a tongue sticking out of it. Oh, and another guy I saw, who was a white phantom along with myself for some other person, was disguised as a barrel. At least I think it was a disguise. I was trying to kick and roll into this barrel: nothing; then it started to move, then in a wisp of smoke it turned into a person. Very weird.

On my slowness: yes, I am quite slow, but I put in some huge sessions this weekend. Aside from going out briefly with friends on Saturday night, all weekend I pretty much just ate food and played Dark Souls. Delicious all around.

With a bit of bleed and poison resisting methods you could certainly venture into the Depths just for a peek. I found a very useful ring, albeit really deep into the place: with every enemy you kill you gain a small amount of HP. Ring of the Evil Eye, I think. Just be careful down there ... there is a bonfire, but the whole place is very dark and trap-laden.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Steerpike
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May 7, 2012 - 10:17 am
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I'll be honest, the Depths nearly broke me. As soon as I encountered those basilisks, it was pretty close to game over. I didn't see any way past. I thought it might be the end of my time with Dark Souls.

Advice on the Depths: the basilisks are not spewing disease. They are spewing curse... juice. Unless your resistance stat is quite high, you'll scarcely have time to observe the meter filling up before you drop dead. Being cursed is no joke - your hit points are cut in half and CURSES STACK. Meaning you can quickly render yourself so cursed you've got no chance at all. There are two ways to break a curse: a Purging Stone (the Undead Merchant in the aqueduct sells them, or you can trade a Cracked Red Eye Stone to Snuggly the Crow for one), or the Cursebreaker in New Londo. Do not go to New Londo.

Defeating basilisks is relatively easy unless they get the drop on you. When one starts inflating to deliver its payload, roll your ass away until the smoke clears. Also keep your eyes peeled for statues of people made of ash - that's a warning sign that basilisks are nearby.

xtal, you're flying. You'll be done with the game soon! And you were the guy who didn't think you could survive more than a second in Demon's Souls!

 

Gregg asked why not stay Hollow all the time. It's a fair question, but of course when you're Hollow you can't summon help, and man, I can't stress enough how important that is. Some later bosses practically require that you come at them in groups of two or three. Beyond that, though, there's not much reason to be un-Hollow. More item and Humanity drops when you're alive, but of course the invasions tend to counter that.

On the subject of invasions and summoning help, my suggestion is to always put your sign down right near a boss's door. Certain bonfires allow you to leave signs near them too, so that's another good place. In my experience you should just drop a sign and hang around for a bit to see if anyone bites, or stay nearby, because if you leave the immediate area your sign disappears.

The balancing system seems pretty broken to me. Either I suck at the game (distinctly possible) or everyone who invades me is dramatically more powerful (and, as mentioned, sometimes wearing strange hats).

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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geggis
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May 7, 2012 - 1:04 pm
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I've noticed since I started playing that I haven't seen a single ghost (=other player) wearing any armour. Every single one just looks like the deprived class in tattered rags, is this the case with everyone else? The only ghosts I see that are wearing things are usually sat around the bonfires, and they usually look scary.

I've been trying to join someone else's game whenever I've been at the parish church but nobody is summoning me. In the end I decided to go check out Darkroot Gardens. That all went pretty well until I decided to use Astoria's Crest to open that door. The trees in that area are noticeably tougher and coupled with the density of forest and the Darkwraiths hanging around I had real difficulty getting far there. I managed to get across to the Eastern armour set and pulled in towards the centre again but then a Darkwraith managed to take me out in an area that was going to be hard to get back to. On the way back a tree ate my face and I lost about 8000 souls and 5 humanity so I was pretty pissed and decided to ditch that area before things started getting even uglier. Oh, while I'm talking about Garden enemies, those golem knights look very tough but actually go down pretty easily with a mace, one even dropped a Stone Greatshield which requires 38 strength and weighs 20 thingies!!

I wandered down to the Darkroot Basin and got biffed in one hit by the knight in the Watchtower and got sliced and stabbed by a big black knight. I also got chased by some weird creatures just in front of what looks like a hydra. Shit looks nasty down there. Oh and to top things off, fucking crystal lizards made a reappearance! Bane of my life, I just cannot hit those things.

Has anyone managed to get a message rated at all? I've been trying all sorts of different approaches with them, funny, useful, non-sequitur, but got nothing back. I'm sick of seeing 'Good Luck' and 'Praise the Sun!' and 'Here!' being rated highly though! I'm making an effort to rate anything that is useful or inventively funny to try and offset that nonsense.

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Pokey
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May 7, 2012 - 1:46 pm
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Is there a good place to accumulate 20,000 souls? Sounds like it may take hours. I explored part of Darkroot Garden and got the Elite Armor and then got killed by a Stone Soldier. Also tried the Gargoyles again and almost had him but fell off the roof.

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geggis
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May 7, 2012 - 2:15 pm
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Pokey, if you can push on through Darkroot Gardens past those golem knights there's a relatively easy boss that'll net you 10,000 souls. I spent that on the Astoria Crest and to be honest, at level 28 I had a lot of difficulty past those doors :-/ I'm not sure how effective spears are against golem knights though, my mace worked a treat.

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Steerpike
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May 7, 2012 - 3:09 pm
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There's a trick about the phantoms lurking through that Artorias door:

Dash out and scamper around them for a while to get their attention, then run back to the stairs. But instead of climbing them, head to their right - there's a small ledge between the stairs and the cliff (you'll probably see a few messages along the lines of "Here!"). Wait there patiently and all the enemies will climb the stairs and then fling themselves off the cliff. Repeat as needed.

Also, next to the Artorias door, as you're going in, there's an illusory wall on your left, concealing a little nook with a bonfire inside.

The golem knights are pretty tough, especially when two come at you at once. 600 souls apiece, though, is a nice profit.

Darkroot Garden is really, really, really big. It's easy to get turned around in there, so be careful. Don't forget, also, that if you're not Hollow, members of the Forest Hunter's Covenant will invade you constantly. I believe they're called Spirits of Vengeance instead of Dark Spirits, but I might be wrong about that.

You can join the Covenant yourself by talking to the big cat lady thing in the ruined tower opposite the Artorias door, but I advise against it since Covenant members aren't allowed to attack most creatures in the Garden, including those phantoms that can be such a great source of souls.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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geggis
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May 7, 2012 - 6:14 pm
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Note to self: Artorias, not Astoria.

Ruined tower opposite the door...? How have I missed that?

Just tried my hand at the Capra Demon and the New Londo Ruins. The Capra Demon I think I could have taken it's just those damn dogs and the enclosed space makes dealing with them all a right pain in the arse. I positioned myself near the entrance so that if I died I could easily retrieve my souls and get outta there with them using a Sacrifice Ring but I decided against because... well, 5000 souls probably wasn't worth risking that ring for. It was a good call because for some bizarre reason my bloodstain was near the stairs and I didn't get anywhere near it before being pounded into the ground.

The New Londo Ruins was an unnerving place. I got up some stairs and across a narrow walkway before being ambushed and decided that I wasn't well equipped enough to be going any further. I did manage to retreive a Fire Keeper Soul while I was down there though. I'm struggling on where to go next because it seems that everywhere is hurting me badly at the moment.

When I returned to Firelink I heard somebody snoring where the bird is and I couldn't find anything. With my surround sound I could tell which direction it was coming from but there didn't seem to be anybody there... weird. Good weird.

That shifty fellow near the Fire Keeper disappeared for a while then reappeared later on. I don't like him, I don't like him one bit.

Edit: @Steerpike:

I found that illusory wall concealing the bonfire 😉 I've been kicking every 'suspicious' wall in the game since I started. My poor cleric's legs.

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Steerpike
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May 7, 2012 - 7:13 pm
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When I returned to Firelink I heard somebody snoring where the bird is and I couldn’t find anything. With my surround sound I could tell which direction it was coming from but there didn’t seem to be anybody there… weird. Good weird.

laugh

Yes, something sleeps down there.

I’m getting a Yurt The Silent Chief vibe from that guy I rescued from the parish church…

mad

Though I refuse to confirm or deny, I may have used the phrase "ass-dog" in association with Sir Lautrec of Carim.

 

As for the ruined tower I mention, I mean WAAAAAY opposite the door - through it and all the way to the other side, past the mean phantoms. If you follow the tip I put in the spoiler up there you can get a nice collection of souls and use 'em to upgrade; your chief objective right now should be the Bell Gargoyles. FWIW, New Londo was the last place I did in my playthrough. Last. Well, second to last. But still.

I'm still jealous of you guys. I'm probably giving away too much in my posts here but I'm just very exuberant about this game, and to be playing it for the first time is a really special treat. I'm having writer's block with my next Diary entry. Gotta get on that thing.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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xtal
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May 8, 2012 - 2:36 am
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It's funny, after about 15 minutes of Dark Souls I was annoyed and thought this can't be better than Demon's Souls. It is oh so improved in so many ways. Ways you don't expect. How is anyone on this planet playing anything other than Dark Souls? It's madness! Quit Warcraft, throw Modern Warfare in the garbage!

As Steerpike put it: DAAAAAARRRRRRKKKK SOOOOUUUUULLLLLSSSSSSSS!!!

I'm kicking a lot of ass in this game, I don't know if it's because I'm so fresh off Demon's that my fingers and brain are just wired to live and breath these games right now, but wow, I'm so in love. Gush gush.

I've been splitting time between a Pyromancer-ish lass (my original creation) and my Knight. Both very enjoyable. I naturally like the knight. It is slow and laborious, as am I.

Although I didn't need it, I took Pokey's advice and...

...shot the dragon's tail off to net me the Drake Sword. Warning to anyone using this as their primary weapon: if you wind up for a power attack (R2 on PS3 controller) it drains 30 durability from the thing!

Still sticking with my Halberd+5. Yes, Gregg, it is indeed a wonderful weapon. I love not having to get right up close and personal.

My characters are both hovering around level 30. (I am addicted, I admit this.) If any of you plan to attack any bosses at a specific time let it be known here. It would be very neat to possibly join forces, although a certain aspect of it is left to chance.

I spent some time this evening just assisting people with the Bell Gargoyles. I got half a dozen Sunlight Medals, about 45,000 souls, and have now left the Way of White covenant to join the Warriors of Sunlight. I very much enjoy helping others. It is satisfying. I don't think I could ever invade someone forcefully; honorably yes, but not like Mr. Poison Griefer did to me.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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geggis
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May 8, 2012 - 8:59 am
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Just to re-ask a couple of my questions from earlier:

  • I’ve noticed since I started playing that I haven’t seen a single ghost (=other player) wearing any armour. Every single one just looks like the deprived class in tattered rags, the only differences being what weapons they're carrying, has anyone else noticed this?
  • Has anyone managed to get a message rated at all?

Sounds like you're having no trouble being summoned xtal! I think my connection speed is responsible for my distinct lack of being summoned. With other games, if anybody tries connecting to me, it nearly always fails. This makes me sad. It makes me even more sad when it comes to Dark Souls.

Steerpike, regarding the Bell Gargoyles: heed my words above^^, the gargoyles are dead. They're all dead. 😉

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xtal
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May 8, 2012 - 10:21 am
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Gregg, a few things:

  • I have read about the phantoms you see, and I think the reason they appear all skin'n'bones raggedy is to sort of reinforce the undead thing. Around bonfires that is supposed to be different, allowing you to see people in their true form.
  • On being summoned: I have been doing it a lot, and I have noticed the most effective way to be summoned is actually not by placing your sign in front of a boss fog door, but actually closer to that level's bonfire. Reasons being: by the time the summoner gets to the fog door they've probably already summoned their help. But right outside a bonfire is the first place they see after they reverse hollowing. If you want to test this theory (and are low level enough... 10-20 roughly) place a summoning sign on the small wooden bridge right outside the Undead Burg bonfire (right behind the crossbow guy's area). I did this and was summoned constantly. Also, I walked around the Parish in human form and found the most common places for summon signs was just outside the Firelink shortcut elevator/bottom of the stairs to the second floor of the church, or just outside the side steps of the church, and just before the path to Andre the Blacksmith. I put my summon sign at the latter repeatedly last night and was summoned at least 10 times in about an hour and a half.
  • An exception I noticed to this was the Capra Demon, since the shortcut from Firelink basically leads right to his fog door, when I was human I saw quite a few summon signs there. I had trouble summoning people there though, the signs disappeared quite quickly... I don't know if they're just disappearing for me and appearing for others to allow different bunches of people a chance (server load balancing?) or if that area just has a lot of demand for summoned help.
  • My random tip of the day: remember when Atlus taught you the one-two punch in Bioshock? (Electro Bolt + Wrench.) I have found a very effective melee strategy, particularly when dealing with medium armored foes (example: the two spear & shield guys about the first merchant in the Burg), is to approach them with your shield raised, and when you are close enough and they are not already winding up for an attack, KICK then ATTACK. Kicking can be finicky sometimes but I find the best way to pull it off 100% of the time is to be very firm with your controller, don't try to lightly push the left stick up and hit R1, you can even just push the stick up hard and HOLD R1 and that will still execute a kick. Anyway, I've found that to be the most stamina-effective way to compromise your opponents' defenses.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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geggis
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May 8, 2012 - 11:05 am
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xtal said

  • My random tip of the day: ... KICK then ATTACK ... I've found that to be the most stamina-effective way to compromise your opponents' defenses.

Hell yes, this. I've been doing that since I started playing; pretty much anything with a shield gets the sharp kick, heavy attack treatment. I noticed some of the Darkwraiths doing it to me behind the Artorias door as well! They're bloody good opponents (if you don't use the stairs glitch mind.)

I left summon signs right outside the side door on the church before you head down the steps towards the blacksmith. I noticed when I needed help against the Bell Gargoyles that there were a lot of signs there, that and it was the closest you could leave a sign to the parish bonfire without walking through the fog threshold. I'd like to establish that summoning actually works on my connection though so I might head down to the Burg and see if I can help someone-- anyone.

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xtal
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May 8, 2012 - 12:19 pm
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Also, regarding messages, I'm trying to leave helpful or nice ones too, and none of mine have been plus rated. But then I see ones like "Need head" appearing everywhere. Sigh.

I don't know why they have the fully canned phrases either. I see a million messages that just say "I can't take this..." What a boring message.

If only I could be so grossly incomprehensible.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Steerpike
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May 8, 2012 - 1:00 pm
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Gregg, early on I had a lot of problems with summoning too. Just never seemed to work, or they'd drop off immediately after appearing. It just sort of went away eventually. Does anyone know if Bandai-Namco is running separate servers for North America and Europe? Maybe it's an infrastructure thing.

I don't think my messages ever got recommended either, though I saw my share of "Praise the sun!" with ten thousand fucking recommendations.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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xtal
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May 8, 2012 - 6:49 pm
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Gregg and I have confirmed that across-the-pond summoning works. We engaged in some jolly co-operation today!

Helped each other both defeat the Capra demon, then did some sleuthing in the Depths, where we took out one invader but then fell to a second, though we did quite respectably down there. The tension of your dwindling Estus is great, and when you've summoned someone you're unable to light or rest at a bonfire. We may have survived that second invasion had I not run out of Estus, and had the invader not been kind of a dick-- he kept closing this door to the Depths bonfire room, and hiding behind it waiting for us to approach. Still, we put up a good fight.

The lag between us was also minimal for the most part. There were a few hiccups when we were invaded, but nothing crippling. It helped in general that we were talking on Gmail chat; gestures are not nearly enough when you completely lose track of where the other person is. This is especially true for the Depths, which are labyrinthine.

All in all, that was a serious good time! 

beerchug

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Synonamess Botch
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May 9, 2012 - 12:30 am
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Wow, lots to catch up on here!  Apologies for the stream of consciousness:

I like that you can buy shit grenades from that merchant in the basement.  Now my set is complete.

I'm not liking how my Cleric build is going, just not having fun.  So I went back to my Bandit and it's been much more enjoyable.  Still mainly strength-based, but pure melee.  I also invested in some Dex so I could have a not-completely-sucky ranged attack.  I got the Drake Sword and that armored boar dropped this huge, ridiculous looking helm.  So naturally I'm wearing it.  I almost can't help myself with trying out different builds.

With that in mind, I have a lot of catching up to do and have mostly skimmed the recent posts.  I killed the Titanite Demon without too much trouble.  Poor guy is (was) crippled after all.  Kind of felt sorry for the guy.  The enemies in the Garden are still a huge pain.  Those golems hit you with some kind of slow spell.

Gregg, I haven't had a single message rated, and I've noticed too that ghosts walking around don't have any gear (except weapons).  Near the bonfires everyone looks as they normally would, which is a really cool effect.

So I took the summon approach with the Bell Gargoyles and the guy put the serious beat down on both of them.  Solaire was there too but didn't do much.  I'm standing by the bell now.

What approach is everyone taking for weapon and armor reinforcement?  I used a couple shards on my mace before I ditched my Cleric, but I've been holding off on armor.  I think I'm still in the Demon's Souls mindset of not having to upgrade armor, and I'm waiting for something better.   Also, it appears there is no item burden in the game.  Does that mean you have no carry limit?

That Capra Demon's lair doesn't afford much room for maneuvering for sure, but I'll probably try it next.

It's very cool that you (Xtal and Gregg) were able to co-op.  How did you manage it, just coordinate outside of the game on where you were placing your summon sign?

Has anyone gone back to the Asylum yet?

Steerpike, I don't think the PSN ID you gave is correct.

Rule #2: Double-tap

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Pokey
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May 9, 2012 - 1:09 am
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SB, I just killed the Gargoyles and rang the bell too. It was very exciting. I had finally got the 20,000 souls to buy the crest and had a free humanity, so I thought I might as well use it for a try at the Gargoyles. I did my first summon. It took a while since several failed, and I got Banana Slug, who had a wicked fire blast, and Tangier. They did all the work and I kept them in health plus a few soul arrows near the end. Great fun! I didn't realize that the human form is so much more powerful than the hollow.

Then I did some upgrades with my winnings. I have my halberd at +5 now and really like it.

I'll head out to the Garden tomorrow and see what is on the other side of the locked gate.

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Steerpike
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May 9, 2012 - 9:34 am
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Well done, guys! I created a new character myself last night and just got past the Taurus Demon, so I'm a little behind on my second playthrough. I'm also managing my NG+ on the side. Switching between a character that's 9th level and one that's 125th is... disorienting.

Botch, armor changes and upgrades are much more of a Thing in Dark Souls. I'd say feel free to upgrade your armor if you have a suit you're reasonably satisfied with.

Weight in your inventory doesn't count against you; instead it's weight of the stuff you have equipped. You can check your equip load (modified by Strength) on your character sheet. It gives an X/Y rating, of how many kilos you've got equipped versus your max.

Here's the thing: your maximum is YOUR MAXIMUM, and you don't ever want to come close to it. In fact, you want to keep your equip load at less than half of your maximum. Every ounce over half will result in increasingly serious penalties to movement speed, damage, and stamina drain.

This is especially relevant when armor enters the discussion. You'll find a couple full suits of armor that offer ludicrous protection but weigh hundreds of kilos - the Stone Armor from the Darkroot Garden giants, for example - and believe me, if you exceed half your equip load max, you'll know it.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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