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Holy cow what prices. Even Morrowind, which by now is feeling its age, is worth the attention of everyone at that price. It's still my favorite of all those listed there.
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
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Well, I woulda strongly urged (shamed) Spike into buying Morrowind but I knew I had only one shot. At least in Oblivion the amazing graphics might hold her attention. One look with her anti-fantasy eyes at MW in all its 2002 glory would be her last. [Image Can Not Be Found]
I too think MW is a better game. Good enough to be currently collecting mods for a massive re-install. And first playthrough of both expansions.
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This is a slippery slope.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [Image Can Not Be Found] This is Spike, having fallen into the pit where she is now to
This is the Infernal Pit of RPG. ^ be found watching the download meter in Steam.
Edit: I had a nice little slippery slope graphic there, but it doesn't show up in my post.
"…you just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake."
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To wander away from the topic:
Quite some time ago a game called Force Majeure II: The Zone crossed my radar. Looked kinda interesting. I did nothing and promptly forgot about it. Yesterday I saw mention of it again, with a link to Mr. Lipid's "thumbs up" FFC review of it. Today I downloaded it from lulu.com
This week I also bought Chronicles of Mystery: The Tree of Life. Chronicles of Mystery: The Scorpio Ritual wasn't a bad game. The graphics were pretty good, but the puzzles were a bit too easy, and the game was too short. But I thought it gave the developers something to work with in the way of a sequel. So I might be disappointed. I might be bored. Who knows?
Off I go to watch that download meter. [Image Can Not Be Found]
"…you just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake."
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Hey, Spike, this is not a bad slippery slope – it's a good one. This very same slope has been previously slidden by none other than Scout, Toger, Jen, Kay, as well as me. Former die-hard adventure players, all of us.
You are simply a slow learner ([Image Can Not Be Found]).
Would you ever want to go back? To adventure games only? Now that you've tasted the other side?
Btw, Morrowind was my first rpg. I was so lost & confused – it's from that first game that I got the rep for starting over. And over. Cause I couldn't decide how to spec my character & heaven forbid I should ever accept a ready-made.
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And you've taught us all not to be afraid of starting over. And over.
I'm in the midst of playing Prince of Persia: Forgotten Sands on the Wii and I started over after playing for 3 hours. I felt much better afterwards. [Image Can Not Be Found]
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Yap said.........
>>Would you ever want to go back? To adventure games only? Now that you've tasted the other side?<<
I sure wouldn't, Yap, although every once in while I do play one like a Sherlock Holmes or a Dark Fall.
My first darkside game was Deus Ex which was a big leap from the adventure games I had been playing for years. But it caught me. But I have to admit that it was Morrowind that really captivated me. This gigantic open world that I could roam about in (trying not to be killed by random beasts and people) and every once in a while trying to move the story forward.
I rarely look back. Kay
Imagine life with no hypothetical situations.
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Seriously, one of you (or all of you) adventure gamers should do an article on this 'slope' or 'darkside' you speak of because it's got to be said, I haven't played an adventure game in years and have spent most of my life at the bottom of this slope and on the darkside. If anything I'm wanting to climb back up that slope because I get totally fed up with the same sorts of action and cliched stories over and over again. I played mainly the LucasArts adventures back in the day so my perspective is a bit stilted aside from the odd Revolution game like Lure of the Temptress, Broken Sword or Beneath A Steel Sky. The worst I ever played was a Sierra game called Torin's Passage which me and my brother renamed to Torin's Back Passage.
I just think it's interesting how you folks seem to be splintering after getting into 'twitchy' games (let me know if I'm wrong about this!). How do you look at adventure games now? And what made that change?
I'm going to talk about Penumbra: Overture again. It's most definitely an adventure game but because it's a survival/psychological horror it sort of has a really horrible sense of unease about it, like the game could literally do anything to you. The adventure elements lull you into this adventure game comfort zone but there's always the survival horror looming over you as you stare at a puzzle problem thinking 'Jesus, I don't want to be here too long, I don't like the look of that hole'. The game's like a wolf in a sheeps clothing.
OT: Should I get one of the Elder Scrolls games? I've never played a beardy weirdy RPG, in fact I haven't played any in years. Not even Baldur's Gate. I think out of the two on offer Morrowind looks more interesting. I really hate the art direction in Oblivion but I've heard the combat and AI are better. Also bear in mind that my spare time is still scant but it is slowly growing.
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I used to play only adventure games, but that was quite a few years ago. I try every so often, The Lost Crown being the last. It was slow and boring after the first hour or so. I did have hopes for it when I started. I would play if there were games like Tex Murphy, Gabriel Knight and Broken Sword. The games these days are just not interesting. I don't think the Penumbra games are anything like the usual adventures. I liked them. I haven't given up hope--there many be another Broken Sword game. I'd play that, though even it has moved a bit toward an action game. My first non-adventure game was Outcast, which I loved.
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I agree, I don't think they're like usual adventures but nonetheless I do consider them adventure games simply because most of the gameplay involves puzzle solving and exploration. They definitely occupy a certain grey area, and one that I'm a big fan of.
Would you say it's adventure games getting less interesting or your own standards changing?
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It is probably a bit of both. I didn't get into RPG or action for quite a while, so I probably would have enjoyed them back when I played just adventure games. But I do think if I was just now introduced to a quality adventure game like Tex Murphy, I would thoroughly enjoy it. I'd like Myst and Riven as well. The games being produced today don't measure up to those.
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Well, Gregg, I started down the slippery slope on December 1st last year. I can tell you why I did. Aside from Fallout 3 and Portal, the only 2 games I've finished in the last 6 months, my favorite games of the last 5 years, all adventure, have come from small/independent developers. If you look at any list of new or just released in the adventure category, on any of the web sites, you will find that they look like just more of the same old stuff. Yet another Nancy Drew or Sherlock Holmes (I've loved Sherlock Holmes for 40+ years, but didn't much care for Nancy when I was a kid.) There are many others; I used Nancy and Sherlock as examples. Same graphics with only minor tweaks over that 5 year period, same gameplay, same vibe, just a different story. Same old, same old. Some adventure games have stuck with the slide-show style because, I think, it's cheaper and easier than 360º panning. And if you make it a 3rd person game you can sometimes limit the view even further. Where's the immersion factor there? Puzzles? Forget it. Used to be you needed to take notes – sometimes lots of notes. Puzzles were hard. You needed to think. Maybe do some math. Or go look something up. Some inventory too, of course, but you had to work to finish a game. Now a large percentage of new games are casual…the hidden object type, or time-management, or something that might be called "Pimp my Puppy". If labeled adventure, games too often require no more than what I call the "hammer method". Collect any item you can pick up. Try to combine all your inventory items one at a time until something sticks. Then try all the items in every place where one is needed. Eventually you solve all the "puzzles" and finish the game. Stories are weak at best. Body-modelling stinks. Voice acting is terrible. Dialog is so badly done as to be painful. What's to love? Not much in many of the big-company games. That's not to say that there aren't some large-developer gems, but they are few and far between. The independents are doing a better job, but often their games aren't available in the US. Or early reports of a promising game might come to nothing due to under/no-funding, or just the demands of a real life. The game is a sideline, not the main job. Gotta put food on the table.
One of the trends in gaming that has worked against me is the influx of older gamers. Not those who have been playing since the text and early console and computer days, but those who are really new to gaming. These, I believe, are the people who are gobbling up many of the casual games. Many of them are women. If I were a developer and had a choice between creating an adventure game that might take 2 years to complete, and then had to worry about packaging, publishing and how many sales I had to make to see a profit, and creating a casual game that might take 2 months to make, could be sold via download only, and net me a few bucks per sale, I might go the casual route too. As a gamer this trend doesn't bode well for my future adventure gaming pleasure.
In short, I just got bored. Too few really great games that suit my preferences, and meet my requirements. I'm picky, I admit it, but it's my gaming dollar to spend where I wish. I chose F3 as my 1st RPG because of the good things several people here said about it, and when I looked at reviews and screenshots I knew I wouldn't get bored. I had to learn to use keyboard controls, and to shoot. Some of the story lines were similar to what we've been reading in the news for the last 30-40 years. The graphics were excellent. I wasn't being led by the nose from point A to point B. Great location that I am somewhat familiar with. F3 had quests that could be completed in different ways depending on the ideology/attitudes of the player. I thought that some of the add-on content was gratuitous and didn't add to, or advance, the main stories, but that's a minor quibble.
I have a lot of unplayed games. Some of them will stay in the back of the cabinet unplayed until I add them to my GTZ list. Much of what's at the front of the cabinet has been purchased, and mostly released, in the last year, but remains unplayed:
Chronicles of Mystery: The Tree of Life. Adventure sequel. Played for about 45 minutes last night. Boring.
Black Circle. Adventure sequel. Played for about an hour the night before beginning Portal. Maybe in the future….
Art of Murder: Hunt for the Puppeteer. Adventure sequel. Didn't much care for the earlier ones, but I got this cheap.
Memento Mori. Looked forward to this for more than a year. Will I get absorbed in it? Don't know.
Then there is The Penumbra Collection, all that is of Oblivion – bought from Steam for $8.50 on Friday (thanks to Yapette's prodding), Force Majeure II: The Zone, the entire Half-Life 2 collection. I don't think I will get bored playing any of these.
On my desktop I have a note containing an ever-changing list of wanted games. It's been there for years and I add to it periodically. It's interesting that the kind of games on it has begun to change along with the titles.
The good news is that there is a stariway, and indeed, an elevator (meets or exceeds ADA requirements) right next to that slippery slope. Once down at the bottom, you can easily go back up (and down again) any time you wish. That is, if you want to.
"…you just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake."
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Since I got my PS3, I've gone even further afield. I've been playing some driving games and enjoying them. My husband plays too. We each try a race and see who wins it first or gets the best time. Right now we are playing Burnout Paradise. I have played games with driving in, such as Mafia or GTA, but never a pure arcade driving game. [Image Can Not Be Found]
Those cars are FAST!!! Nothing like Mafia or even GTA.
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Thanks for the detailed reply Spike. As an adventure veteran I'm sure you've played most of – if not all of – the classics, The Last Express, Sanitarium, Bad Mojo, The Longest Journey, Gabriel Knight etc. (I haven't played any of these, but they're all on my list which incidentally I update periodically [Image Can Not Be Found]) so I assume any new games that don't cut it simply get left by the way side. I suppose it's not too dissimilar to the state of things on the darkside or at the bottom of the slope really. I've played very few story driven action games of late which have enthralled me, aside from Valve's games and Penumbra: Overture. There are the odd ones that come along like Psychonauts and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and more recently Heavy Rain and Uncharted 2 which I hope to get soon but really most action games are the same old, same old. As much as I liked Bioshock it wasn't really a great leap on from System Shock which preceded it by 10 years plus. I don't really venture down the RPG route much because I know how time consuming they are but I would certainly like to try a few out like Fallout 3 and perhaps a beardy weirdy RPG like Baldur's Gate or Morrowind. I started playing the original Fallout a few years ago and unfortunately I got trapped behind an NPC who was supposed to help me and consequently I just never picked it up again. Another problem I have is that I've played Planescape: Torment which has set the bar so ridiculously high I can only see myself switching off at the slightest whiff of a stinking plot or bum script so I can empathise with you on that regard (by the way, you really should check Planescape out if you haven't played it already. It's phenomenal and I'm pretty sure many here will support me on that one [Image Can Not Be Found].)
Have you played Ben There Dan That? They're apparently amazing, if you like your comedy adventures at least. I bought both that and the sequel some time ago but haven't got round to playing either of them yet.
If you're looking for indie adventure games one of your best bets is here. I know giving you more games to play probably isn't a good idea but hell, if you spot something in there you like, it's free and usually pretty decent to boot. [Image Can Not Be Found]
EDIT: @Pokey- Yea! I love a good racing game too. My biggest vice on the PS3 is Motor Storm: Pacific Rift, it's got up to 4 player split screen multiplayer (so it's a great laugh with friends and family) and allows you to race in monster trucks, rally cars, mud pluggers, on quads and bikes – all in the same race! It's crazy good. Oh and I forgot to mention this.
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Spike - run, do not walk, away from Momento Mori. Wretched game. Bad voice actiing, semi-ugly character models with animations that didn't mesh with the dialogue and a story that made not a lick of sense.
Art of Murder - the game and I had a mutual distaste for each other. I thought it was a blatant rip-off (imitation is the best form of flattery) of Still Life. I really like Still Life. The game decided it'd had enough of my bad mouthing it and refused to load after trying to escape from the Russian(?) gang. We agreed to call it a draw and I uninstalled it. Everyone is in a happier place. Silly me, some how I bought Hunt for the Puppeteer before playing the original. Story of my life. [Image Can Not Be Found]
As to Gregg's original question: I started out on the NES with Zelda then Castelvania back in the 80s. The first PC game was a Sierra adventure - Perils of Rosella, I think it was called. I played a lot of Sierra's catalogue. Never even heard of LucasArts until the late 90s when I played Grim Fandango. Right around then was when I started moving away from adventures again by playing Might & Magic. I think I even played an Ultima (or at least bought one to play [Image Can Not Be Found]) Then I played Diablo and all hope was lost. I haven't really moved away from adventures so as much as I flit from genre to genre. If it's fun I'll play it.
I'd have to agree with Spike in that quite a fiew of the adventures being produced today are cookie-cutter. A lot of devs focus on the graphics then throw in some puzzles, a semi-literate (or not) story and then grab the kid next door to add voices. It's a recipe for disaster. And when an honest reviewer slams them for the game, they can't figure out where they went wrong. On the other hand, I'm all about inventory puzzles as it's what I "grew up" on. Sierra games weren't about testing your mind with logic it was more of a guessing game - "Guess what the developer was thinking when he made this puzzle. Think outside the box because it will be as far removed from logic as possible. Show your work."
I'm sure I have more to say, but I've already spent the first hour of work watching the Japan/Camaroon game and I need to get something done before the Italy/Paraguay game at 11a. Priorities, people. [Image Can Not Be Found]
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Deus Ex - $2.49
I don't need to speak while posting in this thread anymore- I mean, come on: if you played it in 2000 or whenever buy it because you're a hopeless collector, and if you didn't, well, buy it now.
If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever
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I know. [Image Can Not Be Found]
Using my Roompainting Dogpooping Gaming Dollars, I have bought in the last 24 hrs:
Deus Ex (own the many disks version, but where I don't know as I've been painting the room [Image Can Not Be Found]) – going to mod it, natch.
Bioshock 2 – @ 50% off I don't have to play $29.99's worth if the shooting is too hard (meaning I am dead more often than alive).
Preordered Monkey Island 2 Remake – not because I love the MIs, I played the originals way back when, but what the heck, it's only $5 ea. because MI Remake is included free. At that price I only have to play a couple of hours to justify the price.
Also, DA:O Awakenings (Ebay new, sealed) – going back in to meet up with my abandoned last Nov. in the tutorial mage. Then again, I might play the other origins just for practice before I re-begin my character for real.
Also, also, a 360 controller for playing Alpha Protocol (Ebay, new @ $29.99) via PC. And other PC games I have avoided (Assassin's Creed?) due to controller fumble fingers. Very motivational to know that a keyboard/mouse plays worse than however poor my controller skills.
Rooms mostly done, dog still hasn't learned to go outside without accidents. More gaming dollars for me. [Image Can Not Be Found]
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I've got my eye on a few games (that I don't need and couldn't possibly have the time to play). I neglected to jump on Deus Ex when it was $2.49, but $10 is good too.
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Great sale. Found a couple I want, but need to figure out how much space I will need for F3 mods before downloading anything else. Sigh.
Like this, though:
[Image Can Not Be Found]"…you just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake."
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