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Dark Souls 2 - FIRST LOOK AT GAMEPLAY
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Synonamess Botch
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July 7, 2013 - 2:05 am
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Some character class videos.  Something about them looks different.  Off.  Can't quite figure out what though.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.co.....Shotgun%29

 

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xtal
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July 15, 2013 - 12:12 pm
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I guess Adam Smith is a new guy at RPS ... Well he can just suck an egg for writing that little joke paragraph. I read "QTEs" and "cover system" and almost died for a second until I realized he was being an ass. I obviously haven't had enough coffee today.

His comment about now being able to equip two arrow types at the same time ... that's not a new feature. That's in Dark Souls. Oh, how you can always spot the noobs!

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Synonamess Botch
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July 15, 2013 - 5:01 pm
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Yeah I almost fell for it too.  It was a tense moment.  🙂

RPS gives Dark Souls at least some love though, right?  Unlike sites such as Destructoid, who are too busy breeding Chocobos or whatever the heck to even properly review the game.

 

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xtal
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July 16, 2013 - 12:08 pm
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I've watched the character class videos. First off, I hope that classes are as much a non-thing in Dark Souls 2 as the previous games.

The warrior was very standard but had some nice looking moves. I hope there is just as much and even more weapon variety and versatility when it comes to attack patterns and styles. One thing I don't like is the graphical 'pow' effect when enemies are hit with arrows. It seems too cartoon-ish.

The sorcerer video simply confirms what was also true with Dark Souls: pure magic is impractical; spellswords again. Also, what's with orbs coming out of killed enemies? Wonder what they're for.

The enemies in the temple knight video had very cool kicking moves. I'd like to see more traditional enemies (sword and shield, or just sword or whatever) that are also much more challenging. I think a lot of people felt like combat with the weirder enemies after you leave the Undead Burg and Parish was less enjoyable. I agree on some counts.

As for the dual swordsman, again, I'm just happy that more options have become available. Dual wielding, if it's implemented legitimately and not just for a handful of weapons, will add so much variety to combat, particularly online.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Steerpike
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July 16, 2013 - 12:37 pm
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I played a Temple Knight in Demon's Souls, and he worked out okay. Miracles were a little handier in that one.

Like you, my hope is that classes are more a foothold than a foundation. The ability to start as something and evolve into something else is one of the great thrills of the Souls games; being defined by your class would not be ideal. It's sort of a way to decide what you don't want to spend points on, not a specialty.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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July 16, 2013 - 1:43 pm
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Count me in on the flexibility of classes.  It's one of my favorite things about the game, from a design perspective.  Unless you're really min/maxing a build, what you start with doesn't really matter.

Xtal I think you hit on some of the things that were bothering me.  Some of the effects seemed too gimmicky.  Also count me in on enjoying combat against humanoids more, to some degree at least.

If they stick to, and expand on, the excellent variety of weapon and play styles, all based upon that simple, elegant framework, I'll be happy.  The challenge is doing that while avoiding gross imbalances.  I'm sure there will be problems that will get patched out, just like there were in Dark Souls.

 

 

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Synonamess Botch
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August 28, 2013 - 9:55 pm
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just watched a vid from a guy who was able to spend a couple hours with Dark Souls 2.  Some interesting mechanics changes.  It all sounds very good.  One thing that stuck out was that dead bodies not longer flop about like blow up dolls anymore (yea!).  Mechanics seem tighter and less prone to abuse (yea!)

I'm tempted one the one hand to ignore everything about this game, and on the other to soak it all in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....caiZ88kGbU

 

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Steerpike
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August 29, 2013 - 10:59 am
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Argh! I'm going to grind my teeth and skip that video. I went into Dark Souls knowing only basic stuff - that it was an open world, how bonfires basically worked, etc - and I think I'll do the same this time around. Surely someone who works professionally in the games media can manage a seven month media blackout... right?

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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August 29, 2013 - 12:01 pm
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FWIW he was pretty careful not to get into specifics about enemy behaviors and such.  It was strictly about mechanics.  If even that is too much for you, then yeah, skip it.  He wasn't allowed to look at the character screens interestingly.  And he said that it's different enough such that if you play it like Dark Souls, you'll probably get killed.

He talked about a different lighting engine.  Is this an update to the PhyreEngine or whatever it's called?

I'm with you though.  I think I'm going to avoid any more previews.  The less known about a Souls game going in, the better.

 

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Steerpike
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August 29, 2013 - 7:52 pm
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That's an interesting question, Botch, though when I say "interesting" I mean "interesting to people like me who make money analyzing and speculating on such things."

I've seen conflicting reports. There's a good chance I misspoke earlier when I said that PhyreEngine would power DkS2 - some outlets are flatly saying that From has dropped Phyre completely and is using something proprietary - but for the hell of it I'll ruminate on why I'm less sure.

On one hand, a case could be made for a big company like From to develop their own engine. Assuming it's a wide-deployment effort (versus something created explicitly for Dark Souls 2), in the very long run they'd probably save some money and possibly have something they could license out to other developers for a profit.

On the other hand, it makes little business sense for them to build a proprietary engine, especially if it was done specifically with Dark Souls 2 in mind. The cost of developing an engine from scratch is staggering - almost certainly greater than the sum of Dark Souls 1 profits - and the technical challenges are considerable; far more so if the engine is a wide-scale tool suitable for many types of games. With their technical prowess, From could readily do it, the question (to me) would be why.

PhyreEngine is free for licensed Sony developers, beastly powerful, and routinely updated. The 3.5 version came out in March and it's gotten a lot of praise. Assuming it's also open-source for licensed developers (it does ship with its source code), I suspect that Dark Souls 2's "new engine" is Phyre at its core, just so massively customized that FromSoft can reasonably say it's theirs. That's not uncommon, and seems a lot more realistic than creating something from the ground up, particularly when we're talking about a company like From that everyone praises for fiscal smarts.

DkS2 director Tomohiro Shibuya has often mentioned "new engine technologies," lighting especially, that he's been developing to take DkS2 lighting beyond "just" shaders. That's sort of a strange thing to say - the just part - but it also makes sense that they'd want to extensively customize some subsystems for their game. There's a very good chance I'm totally off base, but from what I've seen and heard, my guess is that Dark Souls 2 will be powered by the PhyreEngine, just one so tweaked and massaged that it's unrecognizable under the hood.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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August 31, 2013 - 1:58 pm
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So this kind of information is not always readily available during development (or after even)?  Or maybe it depends on the developer.  Anyway, it's interesting to speculate.  For my part, I thought Dark Souls was (and is) gorgeous.  Even if they made only minor improvements I would be satisfied.

Pre-ordered for PS3!  To be delivered on release date too.  Oh Amazon Prime, why do you make things so easy?

 

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Steerpike
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August 31, 2013 - 8:56 pm
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Depends on the developer, really. "Engine" is a bigger marketing thing here in the West than it is in Japan - you rarely hear about Japanese games' technology, because it's less of a selling point for the PR people. Engines have been fetishized a bit, and any developer will tell you that there's no real formal definition of what one is. Technically, if it's anything at all, it's just a renderer, the framework that translates graphics calls and tells the hardware what to display and how. It wasn't really until Doom that the concept was popularized. Today some commercial engines are still just renderers, while others (like Unreal) are entire ecologies with every subsystem you can imagine - physics, AI, shaders, lighting, logic, audio, pipeline, scripting, etc. Though even with all that stuff built in, many developers prefer to custom-make their own subsystems or license others, which is why you see middleware like Havok and Kynapse used even in engines that come with their own physics or AI systems.

Lighting is a perfect choice to focus on for the Souls games. They're so moody already, the more control they have over the dynamic lights, the cooler things they should be able to do. It'll be really interesting to see how much 2 improves over 1 visually - will it be a pretty significant change, like Demon's to Dark, or will it be more modest? Either way, like you said, the graphics are easily good enough. You won't find me complaining!

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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xtal
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September 17, 2013 - 3:23 pm
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I'm with you two - graphics wise I could not care less if it improved one percent (though obviously it will be improved, and I'm sure we'll all be in awe, but that has everything to do with the artistry of the world, not rendering prowess...I was confounded by those who said Dark Souls' graphics were a little behind; in the sense that Dark Souls isn't the most modern tech demo for X technology, yeah sure, but what else do we judge on those merits? For me "good graphics" translates into a visual style that fulfills the feeling of a game world. Dark Souls is a prime example. So too is, say, Guild Wars 2, or Alan Wake. The former feels like a hand-made take on sprawling fantasy, while the latter feels like an otherworldly and claustrophobic nightmare thriller.

As for mechanics, I think one thing you mentioned, Botch, will be key: "if you play it like Dark Souls, you will die." This is what I've heard from the videos I've watched. We're going to have to unlearn and re-learn, which I think couldn't be more appropriate. Backstabbing? Won't be overpowered anymore. Spam rolling? Won't get you out of tight situations anymore. I'm loving what we know so far.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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xtal
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September 19, 2013 - 10:03 am
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We have a specific release date: March 11, 2014.

Beyond death we shall go. (I'm most certainly ordering the super duper edition which contains a sweet statue and a cloth map (!) of the world.)

Oh, also: ENB had a 20 minute hands-on with the beta before TGS started. 26 minute video of him explaining his findings - and as he says, he'll deliver things you're not going to get from the big sites covering it. (He was smart enough to look at the menu/stats screen first thing.)

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Synonamess Botch
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September 19, 2013 - 1:37 pm
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I'm so torn!  I want to see those menu/stats screens, but then again I don't.  Must...not...click...ENB...channel...

I'm getting so hyped up thinking about what changes they'll make.  After all the roll-BS's I've received over the last few days I'm itching for something different.

 

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Steerpike
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September 19, 2013 - 4:05 pm
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Eurogamer Expo is nearly upon us! I will bring a stick and beat away anyone who stands in the way of my playable demo. Then I will give a live report!

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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September 20, 2013 - 1:55 pm
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Oh who am I kidding?  I watched ENB's impressions and now I'm even more hyped.  He didn't really reveal anything you wouldn't find out in the first, well, 20 minutes of gameplay.

One thing that really stuck out - no more being safe from invasions when hollow.  I actually like this feature since it doesn't reward you for walking around looking like a crackhead.  Also, it seems to be much more in line with the lore in that not only aren't you safe from invasions, you get more and more hollow after each death in hollow form.  That's one thing about Dark Souls that always bugged me a bit.  "Don't you dare go hollow", says Laurentius.  "Don't worry, can't happen", says I.

 

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xtal
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September 20, 2013 - 4:59 pm
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Interesting point. There always seemed to be that niggling disconnect between lore and gameplay regarding what a hollow was. Because I appreciate the lore so much I've taken to calling what most people consider hollow form in game "hollowing," since one is on their way to hollowing gradually, until they are well and truly hollow. So yes, the new method he describes would make more sense. It also sounds more terrifying and game over-y. Surely you could never get a true game over screen? I don't think so; the devs know that death is too important to be made finite.

I also like the idea of timed summons; that should at least complicate ganking, and make co-op considerably more intense. Also intriguing was the "blue" covenant ... insta-personal security phantoms, eh? Hmmm. Some people will call that ganking, but I'm leaning towards it being implemented genuinely to help newbies. Maybe there will be a soul level cap to be part of that covenant? That seems like an easy workaround; indeed, a level 120 player should probably not need such assistance.

One thing we don't understand yet, but that I'm guessing, is how much more relevant covenants will be this time around. As it stands today, we can confidently say that only 4 of the 9 covenants in Dark Souls are relevant, yes? Darkwraiths, Dark Moons, Forest Hunters and Warriors of Sunlight. Gravelording was never terribly successful (something I think From will fix in Dks2 with a similar-but-working covenant), the Dragon covenant could still be considered relevant, but it was so fringe to begin with that it's more of a niche covenant. Way of White is essentially pointless. The same goes for the Princess' Guard; I don't think I've ever seen Bountiful or Soothing Sunlight cast. The Chaos Covenant is also rather pointless; the only reason you join is to get two pyromancy spells (good ones, though) and open the Izalith shortcut.

Actually speaking of that, I finished NG with another character a few days ago and for the first time ever fully saw through Solaire's non-death story line. I had never seen his final dialogue where he sits in the sunlight maggot corridor and ponders if his quest was all a lie; I had only ever see him with the sunlight maggot here, and hence having completed his mission and seemingly being at peace with his "sun." Furthermore, summoning Solaire for Gwyn's fight was hilarious. I didn't take a single hit and we took him down in under 30 seconds easily. Solaire is the best meat shield ever in that fight. It was like Biorr versus Penetrator Round 2.

I'm looking forward to our own little Silo covenant.

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Synonamess Botch
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September 20, 2013 - 6:15 pm
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Here's another thing that occurred to me after watching some of Rurikain's analysis.  Given that soul level is not really a complete indicator of advancement, I think it would be much more interesting to set the range based on other things as well.  Consider equipment upgrades and such.  It could certainly limit things such as picking on newbs in the Burg.

Agreed on the Covenants, although I've wanted to try the Boob-a-licious Squad just for a change of pace.  I don't think I've ever joined the Dragon Covenant.  Darkmoon, Forest, and Sunbro are my favs.   I never do Darkwraith - Fraampt is just too useful.  And I always thought of Chaos Covenant as sort of a personality cult (here mistress, your humble servant offers more humanity).  Good for a certain kind of RP, but that's about it.

 

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Steerpike
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September 21, 2013 - 2:23 am
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GASP

 

Libelous charges! Obscene insults! Hurled against the Daughters of Chaos, a fine and upstanding Covenant of which my spunky redheaded pyromancerette is a proud if low-ranking member. 

I see my Covenant as not dissimilar to the Church of Scientology, in that we are expected to make certain, ah, financial sacrifices in exchange for spiritual clarity. And it's true, certain Covenant staff members are less than customer-focused. But Eingyi and the pus  lady are just a tiny shaving of the whole organization.

Though honestly I'm only in it because I'm a pyromancer, and because that Demon Ruins shortcut is hella convenient. And because I haven't gone to Ash Lake yet (I want a dragon head). I'd join the Forest Hunters just to get a Dark Wood Grain Ring, but it seems like a character violation. Pyromancers and forests, you know... only you can prevent forest fires!  Or start them.

I'm glad they're fixing Covenants in 2. It's the most underutilized aspect of the game. It'd be fun to see more integration of equipment or buff spells with the multiplayer, too, if they could balance it. A ring that extends the range of summonable Soul Levels? A hat that allows you to summon three White Phantoms instead of two? Socks of Can't-Be-Invaded? It might be neat.

I am heroically bad at PVP, so in a way GFWL's awfulness is a boon to me. I was grinding phalanxes in the Painted World and the campfire would go out, like, every eighteen seconds. Again and again and again. But the connection never held long enough for the invader to actually transfer. When a Black Phantom finally arrived, it was King Jeremiah. That guy I can handle.

Yowza, invaded while Hollow? Always vulnerable? I like it, but I fear it. They'll have to do some mechanical work - the campfire thing was amusing this afternoon, but it could get damned irritating if it's constant. But man does it ever ratchet the danger level. I think I might have to practice my PVP skills.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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