Synonamess Botch said
I would humbly suggest that you do everything you possibly can before killing Gwyn.
I was coming to that conclusion, if only to make sure I have every bonfire kindled up the max. Spent about an hour last night travelling to all the non-warpable bonfires I could think of (including Undead Asylum) to max them out. Probably unnecessary, but it made me feel - safer.
That could include killing every NPC for his stuff if such things don't offend your sensibilities.
The thought had already crossed my mind.
One question - any thoughts re Dark Sun Gwyndolin? Better to kill him or join his covenant? (Or can you do both?) OK that was three questions.
You can join the Darkmoon Blades, but fighting Gwyndolin is an act of betrayal. It's considered a sin and will also get you kicked out of the convenant. The Anor Londo firekeeper will also become hostile to you. That said, if you have in mind getting everything, the thing to do is join the covenant and get the rewards (you may have to win some PvP contests to get Darkmoon Blade, I forget). After that, fight Gwyndolin because he guards a sweet miracle as well as a cool armor set.
Rule #2: Double-tap
This could be - no, is definitely going to be - a huge commitment if I go down the DMB covenant path. One, I'll need to add 12 levels to my faith stats to be able to use the miracles at all, which at my level is 1m+ souls. However, that pales into insignificance against the fact that (if I've understood the wiki correctly) in order to earn the Darkmoon Blade miracle, I'd need to kill 10 players in PvP. In the 350+ hours I've spent on this game so far, I'd be surprised if I've killed half that number in PvP. (Is there any way of finding out how many people you've killed in PvP? Does the savegame file record that somehow?)
Then again, nothing ventured etc etc. The worst that can happen is that after spending three months failing to get ten Souvenirs of Reprisal, it'll confirm how sucky I am at PvP and I'll just go and get whupped by slaughter Gwyn anyway. So I guess now I just need to decide whether I do the Catacombs/DS ring route or the 'kill' Gwynevere/get absolution route. Decisions decisions.
The jury seems divided on how tough Gwyn is to defeat. Personally I found him tough enough that summoned help - one person - was necessary, but all in all his challenge stems from being a fast, hard-hitting opponent with a long reach versus having any nasty tricks. Some people (naturally) say he's too easy, but those people are weird and play too much Dark Souls.
Killing 10 people in PVP? My word. I wouldn't even know how to begin. Some sort of howitzer or anti-tank device, I imagine.
Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.
I may have a poke at joining the DM covenant, but I could be waiting ages for a summons - it's "known for a low success rate [at PvP] with infrequent multiplayer action" according to the wiki. And as the Souvenir of Reprisal isn't a guaranteed drop, 10 kills is the minimum (unless I do the crow farming - thanks for the tip SB). Gwyn could be kicking his heels for a bit.
Can't help thinking that the principle of me invading a sinner's world in order to exact punishment on them is utterly laughable may get put to the test somewhat.
I found the crow demons drop them relatively frequently. Maybe I was just lucky, in keeping with my rabbit nature. They were easy to deal with with the katana (apparently susceptible to bleeding), not so much with sorcery as their attack tended to avoid most of the homing soul attacks and they tend to clump. What do you need them for?
My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude
I've made four invasions so far. First one was at Undead Burg - we seemed to be quite evenly matched, then he got a hit in that took me down to under 20% HP. Resigning myself to the inevitable, I whaled in on him with my falchion and I, er, won. It's OK though! - the next three were Darkwraiths in darkened Anor Londo who riposted/backstabbed me within 20 seconds, so the universe is back on its normal axis.
Apart from them, "Failed to invade" is getting burned into my screen, so the PW farming route still beckons. Something cool I have learned is that I can get invaded at Undead Burg (four builds that have got to at least O&S and only one of them's killed the Taurus Demon). Had four invasions so far, and they've been pretty fair. Lost three of them, but there you go.
Helmut - the plan is to get enough Souvenirs of Reprisal for me to rank up in the Darkmoon covenant and get Gwyndolin's goodies. Getting them by, y'know, being good at PvP looks like being a hilariously unfeasible ambition.
Update: I got to the point where I was drifting about rather aimlessly between my four different builds, so - I nuked the lot and reverted to the earliest savegame file I could find of my very first build (ten hours into the game and yet to face the Taurus Demon). Plan is to develop and stick with this build and this build only till the end.
That's if I ever get there - originally I wanted to do loads of jolly co-op, but I've developed a taste for hanging around in the Forest waiting to be invaded. And despite my last line in my post above, I've been winning more fights than I lose, and the other night I even won my first 2v1 gank (I was the 1, just to be clear). This character has had more PvP than probably all my other builds put together. IT'S GREAT.
SB: tried to follow your advice with one of my builds to finish everything before going on to NG+ and - man. Oolacile is hard. Somehow managed to eventually scrape past the Sanctuary Guardian using a crossbow (my melee skills were rubbish) then ran into a brick wall against (heh) the Stone Guardians and gave up. Haven't tried with this build yet - maybe my PvP experience will count in my favour.
Also, this time I've killed Gwyndolin instead of joining him, and the prospect of being invaded by his DMB covenant is a source of constant dread and terror to me.
Simple, way to go in the Forest. It's a free-for-all in there and your high kill ratio is impressive.
Sanctuary Guardian is one of my favorite bosses, but yeah, he can be tough. Xtal calls Oolacile some of the best DLC ever. I'm inclined to agree, although the fact that I almost never purchase DLC means I don't have much to compare it against. Have you tried Kalameet yet?
I understand your apprehension over DMB invasions, but frankly your risk of getting invaded on PC is pretty low. But if you do you totally deserved it!
Rule #2: Double-tap
SB! Just hovered my cursor over your name, and - I guess you're the wizaard who's been languishing in my 'Wants to be your friend' folder on GfWL. Sorry sorry sorry - couldn't relate the name to any players I had met on-line and couldn't understand why I had got the request. Will rectify asap.
Thanks for the encouragement about the Forest PvP. I have a suspicion I hit a good/lucky patch with my SL46 build and the invaders I attracted cuz once I cranked up to SL55 I started getting pwned (again). So, I went for broke and decided to 'finish the game' for the first time ever. Did most optional stuff (except Oolacile; I wanted to beat the game sometime this decade) - and -
I have just beaten Gwyn.
The final fight with him ended up being the easiest (relatively, anyway)(and not because I learned how to parry; my lousy reflexes rule that option out). After over a dozen attempts using other weapons, I tried a tactic I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere, which was
dancing round a pillar with him and stabbing at him with a silver knight spear +5
Having a little lie down now to get ready for all the lording over the Age of Dark that's coming up (trans.: didn't link the fire). But man. Really intense fight.
Haha yes that's me. Probably would have helped if I had explained myself.
So you forewent the DLC and went straight for Gwyn? It's always felt anti-climactic to me. I get so much more enjoyment trying out different styles and never actually finishing the game with them.
Nothing is too cheesy for Dark Souls bosses.
Rule #2: Double-tap
Yeah, I skipped the DLC with this build. Only been there once and really struggled just with the early part, so I decided to stick with one character and go for 'finishing the game' (although I'm not sure DS is the kind of game you ever really 'finish'). I think I'll keep going with this character to the end of NG+ before starting a new one. I want try an all-out STR build at some point, but I need to set myself a goal or I'll just end up rather aimlessly character-hopping (again).
And yes, nothing is too cheesy for the bosses. For any foe, really. Hidetaka Miyazaki says so.
P.S. Added you as a friend on GfWL, but given this is the only game I play on-line, I'd be surprised if we meet up. (Pleased, but surprised.) May drop you a line if I get hopelessly stuck in NG+ though.
P.P.S. If you ever invade the world of SnifflyFire03, be gentle with me.
I thought I had read that interview before, but I don't remember the part about plumbing the depths and not knowing where the bottom is. Not to get too psychological, but there are some pretty strong undertones of the unconscious there. It's just one more reason to add to my existing pile of reasons why I find the game so compelling.
Please do! My gaming habits are terribly inconsistent, but some jolly coop would be sweet. I don't think you'd have too much to worry about from me invading. It's a shame that after all the hours I've spent on Dark Souls, my PvP chops are still below average.
Rule #2: Double-tap
Congrats. Now you belong to the that elite fraternity of Tap players that, uh, sit around all day and say congrats. Are you going to change you account name to ComplicatedVeteran? I think I can do something with photoshop for you.
My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude
Synonamess Botch said
Nothing is too cheesy for Dark Souls bosses.
Qft.
When Flamelurker got stuck in a patch of ground and hopelessly locked in place did I make efforts to free him or reset my game? No, I shot all the soul arrows at him. All of them.
And no, Dark Souls doesn't ever end. I think even the way the game loops you back into the asylum after the end credits is very intentional. What I see as implied lore, bits that enlightened me, are many clues and admissions that all the light and dark, demons and gods and humans nonsense, etc. is quite overwrought; these many groups (serpents, gods, cultists, assassins, etc.) with different roles and statuses, all trying to seize and control their destinies. When the bitter truth is that there is only the cyclical endlessness. And in a way that's sort of a subtle, lovely metaphor for Dark Souls the game: you won't necessarily find meaning in the end, you must take your own from the road there. A fine road it is, too.
I think my favourite bit of dialogue in the entire game is a tidbit from Logan (a rather decent character .. at first), not really condescension, but not exactly comfort either. Just ... some truth, and a pinch of advice.
"Oh, do not fret. Life isn't all about sorcery. You will find your own way.
Don't frown with regret; peer forward with your head held high."
If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever
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