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Dark Souls
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Helmut
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April 2, 2014 - 12:22 am
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Depths were ok, I even managed to get the bosses on the first or second try. Just on the first planks of Blighttown, seemingly always falling short in my orchestration so far. 

 

The whole trip so far feels like a trip through the nine circles of Hell, particularly the Hell depicted in Pournelle and Niven's Inferno.

Obviously, that book was based on Dante's Inferno, but the modern interpretation raised some interesting questions, one of which is, what's the purpose of eternal punishment? In that story the protagonist, Alan Carpentier, finds himself able to move freely through the nine circles of Hell, in an effort to rescue others from the tortures of Hell. In this journey, he found himself unable to die, being resurrected, slowly, in place, to continue his journey. 

Carpentier encountered souls, for example, submerged in boiling blood in the seventh circle (outer ring) Phlegethon, who's sins were violence against people and property. The torment was meant to be excruciating with boiling and peeling skin as long as you were touching the blood. Souls attempting to leave the river were thrust back into it, for all eternity, except those who perhaps would find a more suitable circle deeper in Hell. No sense keeping the traitorous murderers in circle seven when we have something extra more special for them down in nine. 

Carpentier is also able to convince others that they can find a route of escape if they travel deeper into Hell, but only they are ready. Many of the souls he encounters in Hell are happy where they are and apparently deserve their fate. 

The burdens of Carpentier's task are enormous, but he can't die. No matter what horrors he sees or encounters,  he can always progress. 

I don't know the story here. I'd say it's a 'null' story so far. I don't know why I progress, or to what end. I do know that I have eternal patience for repetition and since I can't die, success and glory will be mine, bitches, in the ninth circle, or climbing up Satan's hairy leg in the frozen tenth, whatever. 

 

 

 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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April 2, 2014 - 9:03 am
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That seems like a pretty apt comparison, to be honest.

In some ways the story really starts after your visit to Blighttown, though it doesn't necessarily become more accessible. At this point all you really know is what you were told by the man who gave you the Estus flask - that a chosen Undead would leave the asylum in pilgrimage, and by ringing the two bells would set into motion a chain of events that would dictate the fate of the Undead throughout the world. Not much to work with, really. This is one of the reasons I enjoyed the wikis as part of the game, because it filled in gaps I'd never have deduced on my own, giving places and things more significance.

It doesn't get worse than Blighttown. You may encounter tougher places, but it never gets worse.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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April 2, 2014 - 12:54 pm
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Can't someone do something about this squishy, still wiggling, breathed-fire-while-it-was-still-alive thing that's stuck to my foot? It's got to be hindering my stealth attack. 

Very committed here people. Hours of effort out from the last fire. Out of firebombs, but I am loaded with arrows and purple mosses. I seem to be down at the bottom in the poison swamp too scared to move. I may have to revisit the bragging I did last night. Will it hurt? 

 

Edit: Hmmm. I seem to be borken. I'm at the fire on a seeming bridge abutment in Blighttown. I've been down to the water, but ran out of health running through the water. I'm now out of purple moss, and for some reason, can't find my way back out. Does this mean I need to keep trying to go forward? 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Helmut
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April 3, 2014 - 12:27 am
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Ok, I'm  right at the bottom of the wooden ladder structures just before the toxic grime. Can anyone help a lost soul find a fire down here? I have 9 estus, and a few purple mosses, but I don't want to spend them. If I can possibly find a firepit, that'd give me enough health to do a bit of exploring. I've covered almost everything to the left, but the right (that funky tan slope with what appear to be hairs and the ferris wheel? ) is mostly unexplored. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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April 3, 2014 - 11:15 am
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Check me if I'm wrong, Botch & Xtal, but if you're where I think you are, Helmut, you should be able to head to your right (if you're facing out toward the retaining pool), and skirt the poison (more or less) along a very narrow bluff of mud. You're looking for a big concrete-y pipe, like a drainage pipe. There's a Bonfire inside, and it'll be an important staging ground for you.

A few points about the Blighttown swamp...

  • This area is really big, but seems even bigger. It also has many nooks and crannies and plenty of interesting things to find. The poison discourages exploring, but like so much else, that's misdirection. Explore.
  • If poison is a problem you can farm purple moss clumps among the tree-monsters in Darkroot Garden. This is more efficient than buying them. Frankly though I tend to just endure the poison. I'm pretty sure there's a Spider Shield in the Depths, too, which will help offset poison buildup.
  • Like it or not you're going to spend a lot of time here, and revisit it frequently. The leeches in the swamp are the best place to farm large titanite chunks, which you need in vast quantities; there's an important character down here; and this is the only entrance to an optional area worth visiting later on (or now if you're suicidal).
  • If you reverse your hollowing down here, you'll get invaded by an NPC named Maneater Mildred. She's a relatively easy fight (invasion occurs right outside the bonfire pipe), and if you beat her she's available for summoning against the upcoming boss.
  • The pipe bonfire is a favorite place for other players to leave summon signs. It's like a clown car of summon signs. You should drop yours, too - since there's no penalty for dying in another player's world, it's a great way to scope the area.
  • There's a shortcut back to the surface that's accessible from down here. Look for a huge waterwheel. The path is complicated and tricky, but it will grant ready access to the base of Blighttown so you don't have to go through that awful place again. There's no other fast way down until much later in the game, so I suggest finding the shortcut and mastering the path (in both directions), which will be very frustrating but ultimately worth it. I bet you could find some YouTube videos to help out.
  • The Rusted Iron Ring is of great help down here. That necessitates a trip back to the Asylum where it all began, which is an adventure unto itself.

In my recent play as a pyromancer I wound up kind of living in the Blighttown swamps. I avoided them during most of my first playthrough (this is a bad idea), but once you know your way around, this area is actually among the safest in the game. The biggest irritant is those blowflies that spawn endlessly, but a bow and arrow takes care of them.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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April 3, 2014 - 12:59 pm
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Thanks for the info. I defeated Mildred and together we almost  got Quelaag. Mildred died just 20 secs too soon and I was unable to swing fast enough. I tried to summon a few players but I think my wireless connection is too slow, as all those attempts failed. Can you summon an external player on top of having an NPC around? So when you use the white chalk, you're putting down a sign indicating that you want to be summoned? I had it backwards, I thought you put down a sign to lure others to help. 

I'll move my pc downstairs and get on the cable tonight. So the idea is that you put down your mark and hope to get summoned at which time you can earn some humanity? I burned through four humanities last night trying the boss, but have three dual ones left. I'm such a dork at this game. 

 

How do you get back to the asylum? The raven dropped me off, and I can't think of how I'd get back there. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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April 3, 2014 - 3:00 pm
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Exactly - use your White Sign Soapstone and you're leaving a message visible to other players, making yourself available to be summoned. You can be Hollow or not, it doesn't matter. Just drop the sign and go about your business. Sooner or later you'll see "You are being summoned" appear. The stone only works in some places, and the swamp area is popular because (uncommonly) it works right next to the bonfire.

Players can summon up to two others to help, any combination of PC and NPC. This is particularly useful against Quelaag because there's lots of room to maneuver in her area, and three attackers make it impossible for her to focus on any of them.

When you're in another player's world, you're a White Phantom. You CANNOT USE ESTUS IN OTHER WORLDS, so take that into account. Instead, you'll heal when the player who summoned you uses their Estus (this is part of the reason there are good and bad summoners and summonees. The summoner is responsible for keeping their phantoms alive. The phantoms are responsible for dying to protect the summoner.)

If you defeat the area boss as a White Phantom - survive all the way through the fight - you return to your world with some new soft humanity and a quantity of souls best described as a "holy jeepers fuckton." If you die before that, you return to your world without penalty. There's a formula to maintain parity of levels among summoners, summonees, and invaders, so in general anyone you help with be more or less at your level.

 

Righty-ho, to get back to the Asylum you must take the Sparkly the Crow Express. It involves some jumping around at Firelink Shrine, to reach a high tower above that shallow pool temple looking thing. Any description I gave would serve to be confusing; again, I'd say look to YouTube if you need help there.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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April 4, 2014 - 11:56 pm
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Quelaag is catfood. I've spent an enormous amount of time on this battle, both in farming myself out to be summoned, and taking a trip back up to the surface to restock and level up a bit. I can see the attraction of the multiplayer component. I really like the way you can see other parts of the levels, like the way you can see down into the depths of the swamp from up in the burg, or how you can see the flying buttresses from down in the depths. Very nice. 

We're sure you can't be invaded once the level boss is  dead? Once you kill the boss and are packing a ton of souls and since you're human (to have summoned others) it'd be a shame to lose it all to some ... something that rhymes with 'luckyard'. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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April 6, 2014 - 10:10 am
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I can never remember the invasion rules, but I'm pretty sure that you're no longer a target once the area boss is defeated. That's handy, especially since the Blighttown swamp is a common hangout for those needing to stock up on souls or titanite.

Well done beating Quelaag! She's not an easy fight. In my case, it wasn't until her that I really started using the multiplayer element, and it's a game changer. That and, like you, Blighttown was where I really began to notice the incredible care and attention to detail that went into the world. It only gets richer, to be honest, so you should enjoy visiting what's ahead.

When you started the game, did you happen to see any messages that read "The true Dark Souls starts here"? 

With the Chaos Witch down and the second Bell rung, the true Dark Souls starts here. Good luck!

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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April 6, 2014 - 2:05 pm
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Thanks for reminding me I hadn't hit the second bell. I thought the lever on display was the elevator in the ground callup lever in the lair. Just for reference, I can still get a summons outside Quelaag's lair in < 2 minutes, most times I try. Once it gets to be around 11:00 PDT, though, it gets a bit more difficult. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Helmut
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April 14, 2014 - 12:16 pm
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After what seems like an eternity, I've got most (all?) of the interior Sen's Fortress mapped out and looted. All that machinery swinging the blades over the walkways (that you can see from one of the highest points) is really something special. I'm standing in front of the fog gate, too scared to enter. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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April 14, 2014 - 1:45 pm
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If you're up on the roof of Sen's, you can get a sneak preview of what's past that fog gate by looking through a window in the outer room.

Personally I hated Sen's Fortress. Still don't like it. You come back from Blighttown feeling all buff and powerful, maybe spend a few souls on a level or a couple + marks for your favorite weapon. Talk to Kingseeker Frampt, make a few new friends at Firelink, then on to the Fortress, convinced that you're about to kick the ass of darkness. You're a freight train, you're a rock star, you're a stone cold killer, you're goAAUGGH GIANT SNAKE MEN WHY MUST YOU HIT SO HARD

Anyway, in Sen's Fortress you're going to want to find the Covetous Gold Serpent Ring. It involves manipulating that device that aims the rolling boulders - Botch talked me through it earlier in this thread. I'll see if I can find it. You also want to revisit the Undead Asylum, unless you've done so already. The Rusted Iron Ring and the Peculiar Doll are both there, the former handy and the latter essential if you're a completionist.

If you haven't made it to Sen's roof yet, two words: poison. arrows.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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April 14, 2014 - 2:50 pm
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I have all that stuff. There was some loot in the place, I have to say. I'm at level 50, so the lizard dudes are pretty easy and they're easy to get behind to backstab, so that's good. If I run into them on a narrow pathway, they usually fall off after I block four or five of their attacks. The boulder mechanism is understood and all the paths sussed. I just need to commit. 

I did go back to get the iron ring and doll, and the ring is a great thing to have. The things that I do have serious problems with are the Knights when I don't have room (in a tunnel) to dodgeroll to get behind them, and that one Titanite demon in the basement of Sen's where you can't snipe with arrows around the corner. 

Is 97 poison arrows enough? 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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April 14, 2014 - 3:12 pm
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Yeah, 97 should be more than enough with patience. They're not for the boss of Sen's, they're for... another foe you'll encounter, one that does not respawn and that you'll want to eliminate from a distance for reasons soon to become quite obvious.

Oddly, I was fine against Titanite demons on my first DkS playthrough - they were tough but Not That Big A Deal. Ever since, however, on my PC play and in a recent restart on PS3, they've been among my arch-foes, the one you're referring to in particular. I've never liked getting too close to them, because their movements and attacks are unpredictable to me, and that one's positioning makes the fight especially hard. The time required to set up and fling a fireball renders that attack almost useless. In DkS2, speed of casting is modified by stats, so it's possible for different types of builds to have wildly different casting times. Not playing a caster, I haven't really observed this, but I like the idea.

Sen's is really rough on thieves and backstabbers, given the railingless edges. Tough place for that build, but you're almost through and you never have to go back.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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April 14, 2014 - 5:30 pm
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Actually I'm not a backstabber, I'm a masher. The snake people can't do anything to me, 'if I don't get all squishy in the brain' and panic. Rather than blocking or parrying, the easiest thing is to just get behind them as they don't have any attack that gets round back there very fast. 

Now I want to get to the roof, and I can't seem to negotiate the swinging blades all in one go, like I have a dozen times before 🙁 

I will have crushed your death count in the journals if I ever get to the end. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Helmut
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April 15, 2014 - 11:49 am
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I made it to Anor Londo. My first try with the Iron Golem and I got between his legs near the edge of the platform and he jumped back to do some heavy damage, and he was gone. Lucky. 

Did some reading. Part of my... I wouldn't say dislike, but maybe..  distance, from RPGs is the continual feeling that I'm not finding everything, or don't have all the latest gear tricked out. Part of that is my own fault, as I have gads of titanite chunks and whatnots in my bottomless box, and can't be bothered to spend the time to work out what to do with them. Turns out most of the enchanted stuff you can get is made at the blacksmith in Anor Londo, so maybe that's all ok. I did give Andre chunks of something or other, embersI think, but haven't seen anything come of it. He probably used it to fund his cartel and exclusive harem somewhere else in the game. 

Can someone tell me roughly how far I am through the game? It's difficult to determine from walkthroughs (which I've been more or less trying to avoid, Steerpike's diaries excepted). Is magic a useful addition to my value add? Will it create a synergy of death dealing skills, or detract from my core talent as identified by several focus groups found through the maps so far? I've got to level 50, the next level requires ~15,000 souls, but I dropped a metric shit-ton of them in Sen's, let me tell you. Maybe I should go back and do some farming? There are still two Titanite demons in the depths I have yet to claim. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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April 15, 2014 - 1:08 pm
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Anor Londo represents a major milestone, and it's effectively the halfway point in your quest. It's also the point at which you'll face a decision you don't know you're making that will (in part) inform how the rest of the story plays out, and it's where the story's many disordered pieces will begin to come together. Personally, once I got past Anor Londo there was no longer any doubt in my mind that I could finish the game if I chose - up till then I'd just assumed that sooner or later I'd hit a wall and lack the skill to continue. It's the last of the three psychological barriers I mentioned in the Diaries.

I always defer to xtal and Botch on strategic advice, but offhand I'd say if you've made it to level fifty without magic, you're fine continuing that way. Magic is handy, but if you're playing a class without innate magical ability, the investment to get good at it could be massive. You need pretty high Attunement and Intelligence to arm a large variety of spells, and certainly before any offensive ones would come close to doing the damage you're likely doing with a sword. Xtal and Botch will always tell you - rightly - that power in Dark Souls scales through your equipment, not your levels.

Each of the Blacksmiths specialize in certain kinds of equipment ascension, and require the appropriate Ember to achieve it. Blacksmith Andrei is conveniently placed (while the Anor Londo blacksmith is not, at least not at first) and once he has the Large Ember he can boost most weapons to +15. You can also use the boss souls you've collected in certain circumstances to make very special weapons, for which you typically need a certain Ember, a certain blacksmith, and a certain type of base weapon buffed to a certain minimum.

At level 50, you're exactly where most of the wikis say you should be for Anor Londo.

When it comes to farming, you might find yourself needing Large Titanite Chunks, which are best farmed down in the Blighttown Swamp. Those bouncing leeches often drop them, and a combination of the Covetous Gold Serpent Ring and the Rusted Iron Ring will make each run more lucrative.

If it's souls you're looking to farm, The Painted World of Ariamis is a good place to do that. You can also get yourself summoned. There's a good spot in Anor Londo (you'll run into an old friend there) to help players against the boss, which will have the added benefit of preparing you for what you'll face yourself. 

 

In my youth I loved RPGs for their vastness and mystery, but in Grouchy Middle Age I find them a little off-putting for the same reason you do. This is another reason I advocate in favor of wiki use in the Souls games. Even if you don't take advantage of everything you learn, it will help expand your sense of connection to the game and offset that feeling that you're missing something. Failing to realize how much a wiki would have helped me was one of the many mistakes I made in Demon's Souls, and was partially responsible for a growing sense of Very Small Person In A Very Big World I'd Never Understand that ultimately prevented me from finishing.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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April 16, 2014 - 11:11 am
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Well. 120 hours in and Helmut-TR has learned how to run with the controller. LOOK OUT NOW PEOPLES! 

I decided to off the Burg dealer and take up the Katana. We'll see if we can elevate this. I like the notion of a faster sword with less swing motion for tight hallways and narrow walkways. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Helmut, since you've managed so far without magic I'd say you needn't bother. But you could consider leveling both faith and intelligence to a low-to-modest level. About 12 for faith and 15 for intelligence, and maybe 12 attunement to get 2 spell slots. If it's not too much of an investment for you that is. I say this because I would recommend the following magics:

Heal (miracle) - I think it requires 12 faith. It's handy to have an option for situations outside of combat where you don't have to waste Estus.

Cast Light (sorcery) - Requires 14 intelligence. This spell is crucial in one of the four major areas after Anor Londo, and it also unlocks some illusory walls if you go to Oolacile (the DLC area). You can get this spell from Dusk of Oolacile, who can be freed from the Gold Crystal Golem in Darkroot Basin - if you haven't done so already.

Great Magic Weapon (sorcery) - Requires 15 INT. If you're using a non-elemental weapon this buff will add good magic damage at relatively low investment.

Strong Magic Shield (sorcery) - Requires 15 INT. Again, relative low investment and this spell turns your shield into a temporary ultra-sponge.

Other handy ones:

Fall Control (15 INT), Chameleon (14 INT, good for hiding when required and just sort of funny in general), Hush (15 INT, gives same effect as Slumbering Dragoncrest Ring which can be very useful to sneak around).

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Steerpike
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April 17, 2014 - 9:34 am
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Fall Control was definitely highlighted with pink highlighter in my spellbook, with little hearts drawn in pen all around it. It was my BFF of spells.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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