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Bloodborne
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Synonamess Botch
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April 28, 2015 - 3:47 pm
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I could rant forever. I shall!  My loyal followers demand it!

Fixed.

I had gotten into the habit of watching various LPs, but only the parts which I had already been through.  Inevitably though, I was getting spoilers here and there and had to stop.  I feel bad enough for the few things that I didn't find on my own.  I have successfully avoided all wikis and don't really have an urge to look.  I want to finish at least my first playthrough blind.

With that in mind, there is one baffling thing I haven't figured out yet, which began when going back and talking to people in Central Yharnham: every house I spoke with all said the same thing, in the same voice, about finding an old church (I think?!) off the main path to the Cathedral.  I went to where I thought it was referring (after a tough battle with a hunter) and all I see is another one of those swirling vortex thingies.  Now the voice is gone and I don't remember exactly what it said.  Strange.

I like the stripped-down feel as well and don't think it suffers at all for it, although unlike you I'm not finished yet.  I'm currently in the woods on the way to (I think) Byrgenworth.  I defeated the Hemwick boss, which makes five.

I really don't have much interest in the multi-player stuff at this point, besides the passive elements.  I'm enjoying the journey too much.  I did try out co-op one time and helped someone defeat Cleric Beast, but that's it.

I agree so hard about some of my previously favorite you-tubers (the exact ones you mention in fact).  I appreciate ENB's passion but I kind of gave up on him after Dark Souls 2 came out, when he started sounding like a shill.  The only one whom I still frequent is AGermanSpy, who seems to have kept his enthusiasm fully in check.

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xtal
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Synonamess Botch said

With that in mind, there is one baffling thing I haven't figured out yet, which began when going back and talking to people in Central Yharnham: every house I spoke with all said the same thing, in the same voice, about finding an old church (I think?!) off the main path to the Cathedral.  I went to where I thought it was referring (after a tough battle with a hunter) and all I see is another one of those swirling vortex thingies.  Now the voice is gone and I don't remember exactly what it said.  Strange.

Check your inventory (Key tab) for an item called the Tonsil Stone. The same-at-every-door voice should have given you that item. That's when I received it. And you are looking in the correct area which in fact utilizes that item, because once I had it ... well, the result of a certain action played out differently. It leads to a completely optional but very interesting area.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Synonamess Botch
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May 12, 2015 - 6:03 pm
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Yeah I noticed that after going through my stuff again.  Haven't tried it out yet though.  I've kind of hit a wall and haven't played for over a week.  Not sure why exactly, but this game is dark.  Darker than Demon's Souls even.  DeS was dark in a vague, foreboding kind of way.  With Bloodborne, there seems to be a very thin veil between you and utter insanity and the only option is to draw it aside.   The further you go, the harder it is to trust your senses, or your gut.  I think it's starting to get to me.

I'm in a spot in the woods, after sort of running the gauntlet against a cannon shooting at me, where you enter one of those windmills seen only from a distance earlier.  I just told some guy about a safe spot, but then noticed he's basically covered in blood and maybe that wasn't the best thing to do.  Also I've got a ton of echos and there's not a lamp in sight.  On top of that there appears to be a hunter at the lowest level of the windmill...waiting.

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Synonamess Botch
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May 21, 2015 - 11:16 am
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Rule #2: Double-tap

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Steerpike
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May 27, 2015 - 3:24 pm
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I'm now a card-carrying member of the Bloodborne club. Went with a noble scion, blunderbuss (because it's a funny word), and saw cleaver (because it's on the box). 

Why do all these Yharnamites hate me so? I'm only here to kill them. And their neighbors. With my stick-saw.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Steerpike
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May 29, 2015 - 3:15 pm
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First question: how come my Blood Echoes aren't always where I left them? In the Souls games, there was always a nice tidy pile of souls next to the smear of gore and innards that was once my corpse. Blood Echoes seem to wander off. Sometimes I can't find them at all. Is one of these damn dirty Yharnamites taking them? When I am able to restore them, it's often after killing some foe.

Second question: there's a big gate that's getting smashed on by something huge and terrifying on the other side. I'm pretty sure I don't want to see what it is, but also pretty sure the rest of the game is through there. Options?

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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May 29, 2015 - 6:25 pm
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That fear in your voice Barbara? 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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May 29, 2015 - 7:07 pm
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I AM AFRAID

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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May 29, 2015 - 10:45 pm
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Sometimes foes will pick up your blood echos.  You can tell who by the glowing blue eyes.  You can get to the other side of that big door.  Look around for a different path though.  That initial mob was pretty daunting for me.  But learning to manage that encounter will serve you well.  Practice the special moves:

-Interrupting attacks with your firearm.

-Charged R2 attack from behind.

-L1 combos.

They're worth it.

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Steerpike
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May 30, 2015 - 9:38 pm
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Synonamess Botch said
-Interrupting attacks with your firearm.

This!

I had not observed the interrupt until you told me about it. Mainly I'd used my blunderbuss (as funny a word as "fungible") to knock foes back (while shouting "blunderbuss!" at them). The interrupt is much handier.

At first glance Bloodborne looks and plays a lot like Demon's Holes, but it's quite different in the subtleties. Damage dealt and received both seem heavily influenced by what happened immediately before.

I got a dashing new tricorne hat, and then got my face eaten by a man-bear-dog.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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xtal
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June 3, 2015 - 12:05 pm
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On Monday I played Assassin's Creed 4: Fake Assassin Pirate. On Tuesday I played Bloodborne: Demon's Souls 4.

GOD DAMN, ASSASSIN'S CREED FUCKING SUCKS.

I can hardly put into words how much more enjoyable I find Bloodborne. If we had a working 1-10 rating scale that was widely understood, and Bloodborne had a 10, and every Assassin's Creed game (except 1 and 2) had 0, I would say "Well...I think we need to consider looking into the negative numbers at this point, but this is acceptable for now."

I honest-to-goodness tried for a couple hours on Monday to get back into the aforementioned AC game. IT IS SO BORING. An entire world! An ocean of adventure!

... ... ... WHEN IS SOMETHING GOING TO HAPPEN? GOOD GOD WHEN IS THIS GAME GOING TO SLAP ME IN THE FACE AND SAY WAKE THE FUCK UP, I'VE PREPARED A GAME FOR YOU TO EXPERIENCE.

The first thing Bloodborne does is slap me in the face and say HELLO. LEARN, HAVE PATIENCE. PLAY, HAVE FUN. And I do. And I do.

"AC combat"

"Arkham combat"

"Mordor combat"

WHAT IS HAPPENING???!?!!

Lords of the Fallen isn't a great game, but at least they ripped off the better game.

 

I bet that if Demon's Souls had instead been titled The Legend of Zelda: The Old Ones, it would have sold over 20 million copies and been mentioned in the same breaths as Super Mario 64 and The Wind Waker. Instead of "steep learning curve" critics would have said "bold new direction!" Instead of "frustrating" they would have said "demands your attention and respect!"

The open world boredom ... it feels like sleepwalking. I don't know if I can touch another one. I mean..I have to try, but how much more glowing praise can I trust? It seems like a lot of people have only now with Unity become burnt out. 4 (Fake Assassin Pirate, or FAP) is the first game I've fully tried to invest into since the brilliant 2, and after probably 6 or 8 hours I don't think I can trudge on. There were three whole other games between those two! I don't know how anyone did it.

And I don't know the answer either. I think that I'm waiting for Demon's Souls 2, Dark Souls 3, etc. But I'm not. I'm waiting for a great designer to take the ideas that Demon's Souls brought us, and be inspired. I thought I was waiting for DJ Shadow's sequel to Endtroducing...... I was waiting for Since I Left You.

Bloodborne is brilliant, but it's from the same people who made those other two games I love. Can anyone else do it?

If you don't agree with anything I've said up to this point, at least consider this. My most damning argument:

When I'm playing Assassin's Creed, a game that whether it cares to admit it or not is about running around, avoiding some foes and engaging others, I'm seen by an enemy and think oh god, is this guy supposed to see me, should I be sneaking right now, will this sequence be 'interrupted', is the Counter button going to work?

When I'm playing Bloodborne, a game that is about running around, avoiding some foes and engaging others, I'm seen by an enemy and think time to play.

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Steerpike
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June 4, 2015 - 1:20 am
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I got a copy of Unity with my new video card and played a bit a few weeks ago. It was okay, I guess, but I drifted off (as I do) and haven't been back... to the point where I've doubtless forgotten the controls and would have to start again to really get the hang.

If someone wanted to criticize Bloodborne, they might say "it's more of the same." That'd be a very shortsighted, naive way to look at it, though. Each of Miyazaki's games are an iteration on a theme. If you put King's Field next to Demon's Souls next to Dark Souls next to Bloodborne, the progression would be very clear. It's measured progression, more like a scientist testing a theory than a composer working on a new symphony, but so far I've found each step in his process captivating. I appreciate each differently, too.

...

Father Gascoigne is really lighting me up right now. He's not a hard battle, exactly, insofar as I "get" him. I see how to beat him and I see why he keeps beating me: he's using against me the weapons I use against my enemies, and I'm unused to being on their receiving ends. Also the terrain works to his advantage rather than mine. When I came up against the Bell Gargoyles it took a while to see the path to defeating them because they were gargoyles and huge with the tails and axes and roaring and drop from the roof and another one and fire and fuck me I'm dead. Gascoigne it's like, bitch, quit shooting me with your stupid blunderbuss. I now understand how annoyed the people of Yharnam must be when I shoot them with mine. 

...

Can anyone else do it?

Probably, but most of them are going about it wrong. "It's difficult" has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO with the Souls equation. Demon's and Dark Souls are as difficult as they need to be. Bloodborne is designically (it's a word) much easier, but feels as challenging. All three games challenge you, the player, to play them as intended. They're not just hard for difficulty's own sake. The press and ignorami love to run with that "learning curve" crap because it's easier to say "difficult" than to explore than the philosophical underpinnings of why the games obsess players who gravitate toward them.

I applaud the Lords of the Fallen types for trying. Haven't played that game yet - waiting for a sale - but it sounds like at least they're trying. I suspect that other emulators of the style will get better and better as the years go by. The growth in attention and sales all point to the fact that From is doing something right here. We'll see more like them, and we'll all be happier for it.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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geggis
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June 15, 2015 - 6:13 am
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xtal said
I thought I was waiting for DJ Shadow's sequel to Endtroducing...... I was waiting for Since I Left You.

I'm waiting for the sequel to Since I Left You.

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xtal
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July 22, 2015 - 5:43 pm
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Aren't we all, Gregg! It probably already came and went and I just don't know about it. (I don't mean a real second Avalanches album, of course. Though I do keep hearing about one.)

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Steerpike
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September 3, 2015 - 1:52 pm
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Searching for the Chime of a Give Advice to Steerpike Bell...

Progress has been slow what with other stuff going on, but now I'm cracking down. Considered restarting with a Strength build, but decided to just appraise my loadout instead. The issue isn't my build -- Skill and Endurance, which is working fine for me -- it's my Saw Spear. I dislike its moveset. I wanted to swap out for a Saw Cleaver, because I love its moveset, but it scales with Strength rather than Skill.

That problem solved itself when I turned my back on Saw-class weapons entirely, and discovered the miracle of the Threaded Cane. I'd taken its description to mean it had a low damage output. Mistake on my part. With high Skill and the right Bloodgem, it's devastating.

Compared to you guys I'm a level-guzzling twink (in the gaming sense, not the other meaning). I hit level 65 last night, and now I'm at a loss for where to go. I don't think I'm very far into the game -- 35% maybe? For all I know the end is ten minutes out.

Here's where I am.

  • Destroyed the Shadow of Yharnam (thanks for your help, CockMUnkEy333) and opened up the path to Byrgenwerth. I roamed the grounds for a while before going back to the Dream to reassess. The college seems like the obvious next step on the linear path I've followed.
  • I also endured the Sodomy Leeches down in Is-It-Soup-Yet Cave, so I found the Cainhurst Summons in Iosefka's. Poked around a little bit in there, but left when asked to.
  • Last night I reached the Hemwick Witch. I assume she's guarding the carriage waiting to take me to Cainhurst Castle, but again I pulled back because I thought maybe that would be getting ahead of myself.
  • Hunter Workshop is locked but a message said I'd find a key in the Unseen Village. Of all the places I've been the Unseen Village makes me most nervous. It's very Tower-of-Latria. Plus the challenge level seems highest there.

I think that's it as far as possible routes to take. What do you guys suggest?

Bloodborne is fantastic, but feels much more aimless than Dark Souls. The fact that I'm asking where to go rather than how to do something kind of underlines that. You get the sense there's a general order of operations, but no clues as to what it is.

You two are Bloodborne Yodas, can you help a brother out with a gentle nudge?

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Helmut
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September 3, 2015 - 2:44 pm
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Definitely a different vibe from the Dark Souls forum which was just frothy with activity. WTF is going on here? You guys finish this? Is it any good? I get the impression that first impressions were fine, but meh seems to rule the latter stages. 

My Dark Souls single player sensibilities are protected by a +10 GfWL Firewall of Ineptitude

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Steerpike
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September 3, 2015 - 4:35 pm
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It is excellent, Helmut -- I think the dilemma is whether it's worth buying a PS4. And I'd say... no. Not on its own. It's a great game; if there were maybe one other can't-live-without game for the platform (maybe there is now Metal Gear Tits is out) it'd be a slam dunk.

The reduction of froth may have more to do with the fact that we're not all playing simultaneously, or that we're all at home in the Dark Souls style of game. And Bloodborne is definitely that. A non-obsessive would be unable to distinguish between Bloodborne and any of the Souls games.

Structurally I'm having the same issues I had with Dark Souls 2... since you can warp to any location, the world feels disconnected from itself. There's no need to master its geography as in DkS1, where you come to know Lordran intimately whether you want to or not. Yharnam feels less like a whole place where things are connected. The recursive structure and hella shortcuts are still there, but overall after 30 hours I still don't know my way around. I often wander into a place I've visited before and think, "holy crap! THIS neighborhood is connected to THAT neighborhood? Who knew?"

The other major complaint I have is that the camera isn't as well behaved and gets blocked at the worst times. It's not a "bad" camera, just something that wasn't a problem at all in the Souls games so it's more noticeable here.

 

Bloodborne is an 8 out of 10. If it were my first experience with a Miyazaki game, it'd be a 9.5/10. But it's not my first rodeo, and I think that's why everyone's a little more subdued.

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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xtal
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September 4, 2015 - 9:45 am
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Steerpike, I'm excited for your progress! You're in Byrgenwerth, so you're at what I'd call a half way point, or turning point. 

When you defeat the boss of that area the world will once again change. If you see me online shoot me a message and I'd be happy to answer your bell! I never tire of Souls co-op. 

Re: saw weapons, I think you made the right choice. I started my first character with the threaded came because I assumed a Miyazaki game would make the worst sounding weapon the best, and I was right. I loved that weapon and used it exclusive until I was able to buy the Blades of Mercy, which I think rivals Dark Souls' longsword, and soul magic in Demon's. I got it by accident really; Eileen ("hoonter must hoont" crow lady) died to another NPC and her stuff became available at the dream bath. I highly recommend that weapon. I felt unstoppable with it. It favours skill over strength. 

Recommendation: tackle the Hemwick witch boss before going elsewhere. It unlocks the rune workbench which is helpful. That boss also seems harder than it is at first glance; it's really more of a trick boss like Pinwheel or Fool's Idol. Also, you can't go to Cainhurst unless you have the summons letter, not sure if you mentioned having that? Cainhurst is very treacherous compared to what comes before. I would avoid it unless you're prepared to die a whole bunch. The boss of Cainhurst is also one of the most difficult in the game imho. 

Other than that..yeah, keep on trucking. And seriously: co-op! 

If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever

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Steerpike
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September 4, 2015 - 11:53 am
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Yes sir, I got the Cainhurst Summons during my brief exploration of Iosefka's Clinic. It was pretty clear that either the Clinic's defenses had crumbled since I last spoke to Iosefka through the door, or -- more likely -- it had never been a safe haven at all. At least, not for people. I chose to leave when the voice at the top of the stairs suggested I do so. The retreat was tactical; I was battered from my trip through Is-It-Soup-Yet Lake, and besides, with the shortcut open I could come back any time. 

So the Rune Tool is past the Hemwick Witch, eh? You just saved me a lot of circling back. I'd been pushing hard to Byrgenwerth on the assumption that Caryll's tools would be there, given he'd been a student and all. I'll do the Witch and then head off to the college, which should be much easier once I'm runed up.

The Saw Cleaver is one of the coolest and most fun to use melee weapons ever in my book. I could Saw Cleave stuff all day. The Saw weapons are traditional for Hunters, but it looks like some of the others have more utility. My Threaded Cane changed everything in the Forbidden Forest. It combines reach as a whip with high-speed death as a sword; it's the Balder Side Sword of Bloodborne. Plus I've been heavily investing in Endurance on purpose, so I can get ten or twelve fast swings in before my stamina runs out. It's a good build for me since I tend to be a fool of the rush in variety.

As for co-op, I'll watch for you! I love the technical improvements they made to the multiplayer in Bloodborne, but functionally it seems less reliable. I tend to ring a Beckoning Bell right away when I have a big fight ahead, because it takes twenty minutes sometimes to find help.

I've lost track of Eileen, I think I might have missed a trigger for her. We spoke once in Central Yharnam, but she's been absent since. The fellow who likes to discuss things -- Gordon? -- he's still around, but everybody else has already gotten sick. 

Life is the misery we endure between disappointments.

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Synonamess Botch
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September 4, 2015 - 7:58 pm
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"Definitely a different vibe from the Dark Souls forum which was just frothy with activity. WTF is going on here? You guys finish this? Is it any good? I get the impression that first impressions were fine, but meh seems to rule the latter stages. "

I'm not really sure why my Bloodborne played dropped off to nothing.  I haven't progressed from where I last was - in the windmill with a ton of echos and seemingly tough obstacles in every direction.  It is a very good game, but something is blocking me, mentally.

Perhaps more discussion here will spur me on, especially considering that Steerpike is now officially past me, which is of course unacceptable.  I still haven't fully explored that cave with the giants off the beaten path from that little forest village.

One thing I haven't been terribly drawn to (so far) is co-op.   This feels more like a single-player game to me.  Either that or the fact that I'm deliberately, completely avoiding all wiki help for my first playthrough.

As for the saw cleaver - it and the saw spear are my weapons of choice.  I love the moveset of both and was never really drawn to the cane.

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